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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    Trump called the invasion smart. I’m not buying what you’re selling.
     
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  2. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Not quite, but the larger point of Trump’s ill-considered words still stands. Those words were spoken right before (maybe 24 hours) the actual invasion began. What Trump stupidly said was in reference to Putin putting “peacekeepers” (in other words, uniformed Russian personnel) in the occupied parts of the Donbas. Up until that point, Russia had maintained the fiction that those areas only had local “Russian-speaking militias” in opposition to the Ukrainian armed forces. They were in fact regular Russian forces out of uniform since 2014, of course. Putin’s first move, as a precursor to invasion as it turned out, was moving regular Russian formations into Donbas and calling it a “peacekeeping operation.” When he did this, I thought (apparently Trump thought it, too) that this was what Putin really wanted, to put regular troops into Donbas, and the troop buildup in other areas was posturing to get the world to accept it. In other words, the world would breathe such a sigh of relief that there was no actual invasion that no one would really care that the illusion of Russian occupation of Donbas had been dropped. Had that been Putin’s real move, it would have indeed been “smart” and “savvy,” all morality questions notwithstanding. Putin would have acting consistently with his patient, intelligent strategy to that point: grab little bites of land here and there, but do so in a way that the rest of the world does no more than grumble.

    First point is, we now know Putin was not acting in a limited manner, and there was little patience or strategy in his thinking. Second point is, it’s one thing for me to say (assuming that Putin had indeed only taken a little bite out of Ukraine) that Putin was being “savvy.” It’s quite another for a former President to say that. It was more important for Trump, man-child that he is, to taunt Biden for getting “played” by Putin than to be part of a universal condemnation of Putin, and Trump should rightly be excoriated for his words in that instance, even if it is not quite what it seemed in context.

    A good historical metaphor would be Hitler’s invasion of Denmark and Norway during WW2. Strategically and militarily brilliant: Hitler found a way around Britain’s blockade that had slowly strangled Germany during WW1. But it would have been a pretty stupid thing for, say, Herbert Hoover to call it “brilliant” at the time instead of just condemning it.
     
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  3. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia has a new problem: the country is running out of medicines. Apparently, the sanctions are working.

    Russia faces medicine shortage and planned operations are being postponed due to sanctions Ukrainian intelligence

     
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  4. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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  5. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    compared to the Ukranians, the Russians aren't suffering
     
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  6. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

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    Not the right place for it but Mel brooks was a genius. He knew how to point out the racism and still use words that are no longer allowed.
     
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  7. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    True enough. And that’s why I say the Russian people need to suffer, too. Even and especially the ones who are against this war in their hearts. The Russian people stand the best of ending this thing before it turns into a global conflict.
     
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  8. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    I agree with most of what you post here, but most ordinary Russians are just byproducts of where they were born, unfortunately. They are not free and they are told what to do. It is a shame they have to suffer due to a snake for a leader. Putin and his cronies should be the ones suffering. The people are largely just following local custom as they’ve known it their entire lives.
     
  9. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    This adds some more context, but how much more can we do in that regard? Short of initiating a blockade of goods imports, which will never happen.
     
  10. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    a Massachusetts emergency room doc making trips to Ukraine to help children, take supplies, etc. he made a salient point regarding Ukrainians. these traits foster support for Ukraine by so many in the west.

    “The character of the individuals you're working with and their commitment to their country and to their people is just really something you don't see anywhere else, I think, in the world right now," Duggan said.”


    Mass. doctor making 5th trip to Ukraine to help on front lines
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2022
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  11. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    As the Ukrainian army force Russian out of areas they occupy more and more atrocities are reported.




    …..and they try to kill civilians after they leave.

     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2022
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  12. studegator

    studegator GC Legend

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    Many more concerning torture by the Russian invaders.
     
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  13. studegator

    studegator GC Legend

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  14. studegator

    studegator GC Legend

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    Ukrainian helping to lower scrap prices---
     
  15. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    looks like a pile of spare parts to me
     
  16. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    scary to think that this is the representative of the character of the man who seems to be next in line to assume Putin's role. He seems to promote some truly heinous positions. the sledge hammer has been adopted as the Wagner group symbol and their leaders are often pictured holding sledge hammers

    Sledgehammer execution of Russian mercenary who defected to Ukraine shown on video (msn.com)

    A video purportedly showing the sledgehammer execution of a former Russian mercenary who switched sides to back Ukraine was circulated on Russian social media on Sunday, with pro-Russian bloggers saying it was revenge for his alleged treachery.In an unverified video distributed on Telegram channels which Russian media said were linked to the Wagner mercenary group, the man identified himself as Yevgenny Nuzhin, 55, and said he had changed sides to "fight against the Russians".

    In the footage, Nuzhin, shown with his head taped to a brick wall, gave his name, date of birth and said that he had changed sides on Sept. 4. As he said those words, an unidentified man loitering in combat clothing behind Nuzhin, smashed a sledgehammer into the side of his head and neck.
    Nuzhin collapsed onto the floor and the unidentified man delivered another blow to his head.
    ..........................
    Asked to comment on the execution video, Prigozhin, the founder of the Wagner mercenary group, said in remarks released by his spokeswoman that the video should be called "A dog receives a dog's death."
     
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  17. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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    So about on par with ISIS.
     
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  18. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Why did Surovikin withdraw his troops from Kherson City ?

    Why does he care so much about his troops that he did not want to expose them to encirclement ?

    Why didn’t he steel them for a fight to the death rather than cede, even temporarily, ground that it controlled ?

    Here the US has a distinct advantage. It does not care about its troops because its troops aren’t American.
     
  19. Sohogator

    Sohogator GC Hall of Fame

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    You are back! Was worried you been fragged running away from the from the front lines.
    Hope you’ve found a safe hidey hole where you can contemplate Russia’s abject defeat and humiliation as well as your poor life choices.
     
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  20. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Take a PDS (Putin Derangement Syndrome) pill and calmly think this through ...

    The people driving this proxy war have certain inflexible aims. Among them ...

    Drive Russia back to pre-2014 borders, regime change Putin, weaken Russia and cleave it from China, divide Russian spoils among its a Western allies, see Ukraine part of NATO, etc.

    Nearly nine months in ...

    Russia securing Donbas and land bridge to Crimea, Putin large and in charge and with robust support, Russia weathering sanctions, economy is sound, has never been closer to China, increasing nations joining Russian orbit, hundreds of thousands (mostly Ukrainians) dead or wounded, Ukraine the country a wasteland, American stockpiles depleted, US economy moving from technical to felt recession, etc.

    Who’s losing again ?
     
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