On the value of college

I don't think it is some sort of organized strategy. But I think that explains the move since 2016. The primary motivation of much of the political right now is about social hierarchical orders and their concerns about their perceptions of the break down in these hierarchies as people react against hierarchies based on race, gender, class, etc. As I pointed out, it is always the other people's kids that shouldn't be in college, never their kids. That suggests to me that the concern isn't really about how awful college is. Instead, it would seem to fit better from the perspective of concerns about the further breakdown in hierarchical social orders.

My theory neither assumes that this is an organized movement nor does it assume that it is even a conscious behavior.

 

Love this Post!

It represents the reality of the situation. We all have skills. Some are better at some things than others. Others are better at things than some.

The problem is the elitist in the world are not able to comprehend this.

It irks the mess out of me how so many are not capable of understanding how important all jobs are. And that it does not matter how one got to the position they are. One day you very well might go through a toll booth and the person taking your money is a retired multimillionaire who wants interaction and decides to take a part time gig.

 

As an aside, there's a reason these people generally oppose affirmative action admissions (and the court cases generally involve elite universities) too

 

Who here is saying that some jobs are not important?

 

This is how you end up with a kid going to college who should not. Numbers can skew things big time! Most of your extremely high earners are going to have degrees. Doctor/Lawyer/MBA/etc. These degrees skew the numbers big time.

 

Strawman alert?

 

You have a vivid imagination, I'll give you that. Maybe that bum I saw panhandling is a retired millionaire who just likes talking to folks and holding signs. You never know I guess. You know what really tells people some jobs dont have value? That fact that they pay very little!

 

Conservatives '22 - More guns and More Uneducated People!

Sounds like a dangerous combination.

 

And then the framing is changed and the 99.99% of toll booth operators that aren't millionaires don't "deserve" higher salaries and their life as a low paid person is a sign of their laziness or other such moral failings.

 

Even the low-income college grads do better than the average high school diploma, just not a million dollars better.

 

Medians aren't skewed by high-earning outliers. Nor are unemployment numbers, which are substantially better for degree holders than high school grads.

 

I'd like to know the educational breakdown of the respondents (67%) that believe college is not a path to success. I speculate those that persevered to a degree understand the benefits.

fwiw... 67% of adults don't have a bachelor degree.

 

The premise of the thread is on the value of college. I think you are naive if you think there is not group who believe you have to go to college or…

That premise alone sets a standard that one is lesser for not obtaining said piece of paper.

That said…just recently we told a majority of the workforce their job was “not essential”. Now that included jobs that required degrees. And I will leave it at that as I could take this in a whole different direction.

There absolutely is an elitism among some when it comes to college degrees. And we can disagree if you think otherwise. No one said it is everyone. But…

 

Exactly. Doctors and lawyers are represented on this graph as having a Master's degree or higher. They aren't skewing the Bachelor's degree line at all. Nothing is guaranteed, and I know people with a JD degree who are struggling financially. But this graph shows, you increase your odds of success the higher the education ladder you finish.

 

The ironic thing is that the argument against college relies very heavily on outliers. E.g., if you're dedicated, work hard, start a business, etc., you can make a great living with just a high school diploma. Although that's true, it's essentially comparing the top 5% of performers in the high school-only group to the median (or below average) college graduate.

 

Seems like given the cost of college, admitting it's actual value is low when it costs more than ever to obtain a degree would be a condemnation of markets in general

 

If the claim was that too many people were going to graduate school, then I could support that. More expensive and lower return on investment, and graduate school admissions offices know what they are doing. If they aren't funding your graduate degree, take that as a pretty strong signal that you shouldn't be going to graduate school.

 

So just to be clear …no one here said that but you’re pretty that there are people elsewhere who think it.
Ok

 

Averages can be.

The top 1%…I have no clue but would guess that well over 95% have degrees probably closer to 98% plus. That group is going to move the average.

The bigger point is that we need to support and guide our kids the best we can. If you have the ability to pay for your kids degree that will not pay for itself. And that is what they want to do. I don’t think that is a bad thing at all. However if you don’t have the ability to help them and they want a degree that will saddle them with debt that could be detrimental. It might be better to guide them to a second option.

Life is tough. And there are consequences for decisions. There is no doubt a college degree in many circumstances can be beneficial. But the idea we need to push it on all kids is just wrong.