On the value of college

I bet if you ask any Republican if their kid should go to college you get different answers. Cant see many accountants, dentists or bankers saying their own kid should go to a trade school to learn HVAC repair. As always, this is about what they think other people should do, and I would imagine class status matters here too.

 

We need both doctors and truck drivers. Both are extremely important and should be viewed with dignity. Whether college professors are teaching liberal propaganda may depend upon the major and the classes one chooses to take. My undergrad was in finance. I don't recall a lot of political discussion at all and imagine there aren't a ton of left-wing folks in that field. Even my undergrad classes, I don't recall a lot of partisan talk, but maybe that's because I took a lot of business classes. I am sure there aren't a lot of conservatives teaching womens' studies.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've heard this overly simplistic opinion shared recently. So many tradesmen and private business owners I know have unknowingly mocked my wife for the debt she has incurred in order to acquire her doctorate in physical therapy. Of course that doesn't stop them from asking for her professional opinion on their aches and pains as well as how to treat them....

 

There aren't many left-wing people even in the humanities. Its mostly just NPR liberal types, intellectual conservative/libertarian types and apolitical dorks who don't care about much outside their research interests. I could count on one hand the number of professors I had over the years that would describe themselves as Marxists and such. There are probably more strident or activist type people that are in the GA and contingent faculty ranks, but that's because they do most of the work and get paid peanuts for it.

 

Times have sure changed since I was at UF (67-70 and 76-79). I don’t remember a single professor talking politics. The only indoctrination I recall was to learn and think for yourself. This “professors are too liberal” has raised its head a couple times since, and that was when things became “political” at UF.

 

same. I did undergrad and grad in the 90s and don’t remember a single political conversation.

 

The devaluing of education is perfectly in alignment with pizza gate, litter boxes, donald the loser and climate denial. God help us.

In a perfect world, in my opinion, we should strive for an educated citizenry. That means making college available to anyone with the competency and desire. Unless you can make a case that a dumber America is a better America.

You can thank William F. Buckley's for his strawman attacks against "elites" for demonizing the college educated within the conservative ranks.

 

For the most part, I never had profs that openly talked politics in class, some were open with what they believed in general, but stuck to the material when teaching. As this was history, its pretty easy to stay away from current events and politics.

 

I see the aim of “think for yourself” as kind of the ideal. I do think the ideal is unattainable (and in the extreme literal sense likely not even desirable) at any time, but I do think that in this moment there are some distinct areas where professors and students don’t feel permitted to probe.

That said, I think all major perspectives are valuable, so even I thought a college had a slant, it’s not bad to experience different slants.

 

I think the problem is deeper than just whether college is good or not. We as a country have inflated the number of college graduates without controls. As a result we have an oversupply of kids that have degrees, debt and no skills because they graduated with a terrible degree. At the same time, some of those kids had no business being in college to begin with and could have made a decent living in the trades, which is very low on numbers. There needs to be a balance. College isnt worth it unless you have a plan to become an Engineer, Doctor, Lawyer, Accountant etc. If you dont know what to do going in, you are basically throwing money in the toilet and exacerbating the debt crisis.

 

College is not solely vocational. Those with "worthless" degrees have, on a whole, developed better critical thinking skills and accumulated more knowledge than if they never went to college. That counts for something for the person and our society. Assuming you don't value ignorance and stupidity.

The fact some of those "worthless" degree folks are deep in debt when they graduate is a national shame. We have all of the resources we need to value advanced education like similar democratic countries but worker drone availability seems to be a priority for some.

 

I'm not going to sit here and tell you college don't mean squat because it does, however I have a couple of personal examples that could be used to argue that college don't mean squat.
1. My dad was executive VP of one of the largest corporations in Florida for 40 years. He dropped out in the 11th grade. He had many engineers, accountants and other college educated people working under him.
2. Me, I graduated from UF with honors. Out of college I probably got one of the top 2 or 3 jobs of any BCN grad the year I graduated. I was hired by Tishman construction as a project engineer on Disney's Epcot center project. For those who are not familiar with Tishman they were the project managers for EPCOT and also were the General Contractor that built the original World Trade Center. Within 6 months I washed out with Tishman, I have a lot of learning disabilities that just don't go along with dealing with upper management types. I left Tishman and went to work as a Superintendent on a construction project on Orlando's Naval Training Center. Once again I did not have the people skills to cut it. I had my General Contractors license before I ever graduated UF so next I started a small custom homebuilding business. Due to a lack of skill dealing with people I tended to let people take advantage of me and was not able to stay in business but for a few years. Finally in 1993 I took a job with the county a job far below my qualifications but I felt comfortable there and ended up spending the next 25 years as an inspector. I never regretted it.

Some people do not have the skills needed for certain types of jobs. I read very slow, about 1/4 the speed of the average person. I also have dyslexia and disgraphia which makes it almost impossible to do a lot of paperwork. Also have some verbal communication problems. Some would ask how did I graduate UF with honors. I can do math problems in my head most people can't do with a calculator. I also retain most of what I read or at least did when I was younger and I have very good test taking abilities.

My dad on the other hand had to quit school in the 11th grade to help support 7 younger brothers and sisters but he learned his skills on the job. Like I said an education is great but it doesn't always mean squat.

 

Another Republicans are stupid thread Jeez. There is nothing wrong with college but our culture has conditioned our youth over the last 40 years that this was the only real way to success. As a result we have generations of students in debt up to their eyeballs. And a lot more on campuses right now that will soon join them. Fact is many are pushed into it but really have no business being there. It’s not for everyone. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

 

Even with all of those "worthless" degrees out there, having a college degree is still worth about a million dollars more than not having a college degree over a lifetime.

 

Some of the most intelligent people I have ever met in my life barely made it through High School. College is vocational, whether you want to believe it or not. Ask any student roaming the halls why they are there. Offer them a job with a 6 figure salary doing what they want to do and they will jump ship.

 

Getting a Bachelors degree in sociology and working at the GAP is not worth more that the HS graduate working at Starbucks. Its the occupation, not the degree.

 

Here is the actual data on degrees in sociology:

Sociology Degree: Requirements, Career Prospects & Salary | Research.com

 

Yay... anecdotes!!! Surely the best way to win a debate.

I said the benefits weren't "solely" vocational. Misquoting an argument, surely the best way to win a debate.

What if what they want to do requires education? Jeez.