Reading your posts, I generally agree the instigator in conflicts need to be charged. That’s why I thought Zimmerman needed to be held accountable. He was stalking the kid and following him home. Martin needed to be allowed to defend himself and the instigator held accountable. If a guy instigates a fight, starts losing, then ends up “winning” by pulling a gun and killing his opponent (knowing he is armed the whole time). That is murder. That is the issue with the nonsensical stand your ground laws. Not sure that logic applies once the fight reaches “chokehold” status and a bystander to the fight (albeit an interested party) is asking you to let go. At that point you have to walk away. The firefighter probably shouldn’t have gotten involved here in the first place (it’s not like he was even stopping a crime), but that’s not even what cost him his life, he lost his life because he went too far and perhaps would have killed this guy by choking him out. The woman gives him several warnings, so it seems pretty obviously “justified” - even in states with loose stand your ground laws she is protecting someone from imminent bodily harm or death. Doesn’t matter that “her” guy is a felon and the other is a firefighter. The firefighter right there was acting criminally himself.
This had nothing to with SYG. That woman didn’t even know what that was. It was a fireman with some self defense classes sticking his nose in a no win scenario and a felon with a gun. Lose for everyone. Do not ever inject yourself into a domestic. Ever. Let them beat the shi- out of each other. If the woman wants to date a douche that’s on her
How did the firefighter go to far? By telling the ex con to lay off the verbal abuse and threats towards the girl behind the counter? Should he and everyone else just walk away in such situations? Or did he go to far by defending himself when the ex con came back with illegal gun? Dis he go to far with the submission hold? Because if it was a true choke hold the ex con would have been out in a few short minutes. Not 10 by any measure. If it was a true submission hold trying to stop the violence… what else was he supposed to do? Let him go so his girlfriend could give him back his gun?
Good. He should be. But it wasn't him that shot the fireman... I thought the question was whether or not the lady that fired the shot did anything wrong...
Yes, but it was you who said he was legally allowed to get his gun. Just pointing out that he wasn’t.
Alright, I'll agree on that point.... of course, if he didn't have his gun, he might be the one dead right now, strangled to death, so I guess owning an illegal gun worked out best for him.
He needed to let go of the chokehold. Yes. I’d say that’s where he went too far. He kept going. I’m sure he wasn’t thinking straight, but the woman was already holding the gun on him. If they shot him AFTER he let go, then obviously you have a murder instead of a justifiable use of force by the female.
He ended up going too far by losing his life over something that was not worth losing his life over. You can make him out to be a victim or, if he lived, become a smarter person on self-reflection on how he handled himself in that situation and what he would do differently to have a less violent outcome for everyone. Maybe instead of going outside, he could have stayed and consoled the cashier, watched out the window until the guy cooled off or left, call the cops if he felt the guy was prone to violence. I feel bad for the FF, because he doesn't get a second chance, but also realize the woman who shot him is probably going to be traumatized by this outcome for a long time as well. No one was a winner here.
If the guy was just being a jerk, I wouldn't care. Let him blow off his steam and leave and when it's your turn in line tell the cashier what an asshole the guy was and have a laugh at his expense. This seems like two assholes trying to one-up each other with their aggression. I bet if we saw the inside video, you'd see that the fireman wasn't a nice guy who politely stood up for the cashier, either ... one of the news stories says he "jumped away" from the fireman when was trying to force him to leave, which implies to me the fireman took an aggressive action ... then he apparently followed him into the parking after he did leave ... try to look at it objectively and see that there is probably more than one asshole in this story. Also, someone said it was 10 minutes because a news story said the fight lasted ten minutes. He obviously wasn't in a choke hold for a full ten minutes, but I'll ask you same question, how many minutes would you let someone hold your wife/girlfriend/child in choke hold before you stopped it by any means necessary? She gave multiple warnings ... he didn't' listen.
A woman who just turned 104 years old was asked what her secret to living a long life was and she replied "I know how to mind my own business." This simple edict can get you very far and keep you out of danger. Even if you're doing something as mundane as stopping by a gas station, it's all about self-preservation and if that means walking away from a situation where a clerk is being harassed by a customer, then so be it. Call the cops and let them deal with it. What's the common denominator in this story, Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman, Ahmaud Arbery & his 3 inbred murderers, the Florida movie theater popcorn killer and various other stories? They all could've been avoided had people simply minded their business. We're living in a society filled with people who are encouraged to be armed (thanks to the right) and who are itching for you to approach them and provoke them so that they have an excuse to shoot you, so do what you must to avoid volatile situations.
That is a sad statement. Just walk away and let the girl be harassed by the ex con. Don’t risk your well being. If jackasses are harassing a black kid in the park … just walk away. If someone is berating and threatening LGTBQ students.. just walk away.. do t help. If someone is breaking into your neighbors house.. Mind your own damn business and walk away. It might be that the fireman escalated the situation … that he went out side looking for a fight. At this point we do not know. But to place blame on him for not minding his own business and walking away as the ex con berated and threatened the clerk… glad you don’t live near us.
Welcome to the legal implications of Stand Your Ground laws, where both sides of a fight often have the legal right to kill the other. When the law contains no obligation to attempt to de-escalate situations, this is the result.
I guarantee you his heartbroken family and friends agree that he should've just walked away and minded his own business. Walking away would have him waking up in his own bed, enjoying a nice breakfast and getting ready to watch football on this Sunday. Instead he didn't mind his own business and confronted an lunatic armed person (thanks to gun-obsessed America pushed by the right) and that was all she wrote, and the killer got away thanks to crappy laws (pushed by the right). An unfortunate situation that could've easily been avoided.
The dude is rolling around and choking a guy out in the parking lot. That’s a far cry from chivalrously standing up for a cashier. Unless intervening in a crime, yeah I pretty much think “mind your own business” applies or you get situations like this. I’d say how it escalated into the parking lot would be important for which of the two men was more criminally responsible in terms of assault and battery charges for each party, but the woman made that determination somewhat moot. It’s now basically just the weapons charge for the felon.
I’m not arguing. You be you. Walk away and smile that you did the smart thing. All good. Your wife and kids can love you for turning your back on the store clerk.. all good. Just not what I want for a neighbor. I imagine you would use your phone to record the incident instead of getting involved.
He didn’t choke any one out. How did they get to that point? Did the ex con come at him with a gun? Should he have fallen to his knees and begged for mercy? Or should he have defended himself from the criminal with a gun? Did the Exxon stop fighting? Or did he continue to fight? Why should the. firefighter stop the fight when his opponent is still trying to hurt him? I haven’t blamed the woman for shooting. But to blame the firefighter without more proof seems at best premature at this point.
My wife and kids will love me for exercising good judgment and returning home from a trip to the gas station in one piece. Maybe I'd be more inclined to step in and help a store clerk being harassed if we didn't live in a gun-crazed society (thanks to the right), but the risks of engaging with a potentially armed person (which is a very high chance) outweigh the reward and for me. The ultimate reward is making it back home to the wife and kids because ultimately my job is to make it back home to provide for and protect them, not play Superman.
Again man.. all good. You be you. You don’t have to justify walking away and letting someone get hurt. That’s just you. It’s cool. Again, just glad your not one of our neighbors.
I’ll add one more. I advise people to never ever stop and help someone on the side of road. Call The cops or send a tow truck but do not personally get involved. I’ve seen this con too many times. i would only disagree to your above IF you know your neighbor and there isn’t fear of walking into the unknown. Even then if your neighbors are married and fighting. Do NOT get Involved. Call the Authorities and go kiss your wife and play a game with your kid.
