Another unsettling video of police

That's a good point about only uploading the good interactions. I would say at the shear amount of content out there, it's still indicative of a problem.

What's really telling is the amount of "Yeah, Yeah, you've got rights. We don't care about your rights." Or, "I don't want to hear any of your 'Constitution' bullshit." That, and the amount of cops who want to file Obstruction charges on law abiding citizens for failure to ID.

 

I agree with the concept that you are driving at. What we don't talk about enough is, what are our expectations? And, are we supplying the resources to adequately meet these expectations? If we say "yes," what is that based on? If we say "no," what are we going to do about it besides complain and say "that ain't right!?" (certainly not taking that away from anybody, but what else?).

I think cameras and public accountability are one way to slowly address the problem as they provide resources for police departments to use for teaching lessons (and/or opportunities to address them to a given community to explain why such tactics were appropriate). I know in GAINESVILLE, from time to time, we've had our communications folks from GPD or from ASO speak to how an issue would or wouldn't be handled if their personnel encountered a given situation (and, that's, of course, assuming that folks stay in their lane).

But what happens when more resources are needed, and nobody wants to spend more for the desired results? For this video by the OP, is that a training issue? Or is it a talent issue? Nobody had his back suggesting that it was training (from what I have seen). Is there a level of training that would have prevented this encounter, or is it possible that some encounters will end up being untrainable (at least for certain individuals)?

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

My brother was an officer for few years before he joined the Navy. He said that no one was to pull their gun unless the other guy had one. Last resort kind of thing. I'm sure most officers do the same thing. When something like this happens, the officer needs to lose his/her badge and never be allowed to be an officer again, as well as be charged with attempted murder/murder/manslaughter depending on the situation. There needs to also be a nationwide database of officers so they can't be rehired anywhere else.

 

Almost none of that contradicts what I am saying, in fact it largely affirms it. Get numbers on the issue and then we can have an honest conversation on it. If the police are unwilling to provide it, pass laws requiring it. Because the numbers in even a well operating police world would have more than enough to fill a Twitter feed. But if you can show that it happens one in every ten cases, or 20, or some other number, then you can point to a statistic to call for change. But random cases show little against a 63 million sized data set,
Jmo

 

You can’t get numbers. You can’t pass legislation. They fight it and they have support. And if you do pass legislation, they ignore it. Happened with every reform to date. The self reported numbers are always cooked. It is only due to media that we have an unofficial count. It’s crazy that we cannot even get a fix on numbers, but that is the reality of political support for police.

And I disagree that a well run society should just accept that much misconduct, but I recognize I am in the small minority. Then there is qualified immunity and what happens to anyone that actually reports wrongdoing.

 

So here's police acting humanely, bothered by what they are doing understandably. Videos now released of the initial waves of arrests our Governor bragged about for voting "fraud"

The recordings by Tampa police and Hillsborough County sheriff’s deputies reveal officers who were patient, understanding — almost apologetic.



Even the Tampa police officer driving Patterson to the jail seemed surprised by the charges against him. En route, the officer received a phone call and appeared to briefly discuss Patterson’s case.

“I’ve never seen these charges before in my entire life,” the officer said.

 

Your personal advice is not very brilliant. For starters, "Screw you Pig" is so 70's and was mainly used against police that form fitted into riot gear to do things like kill students at Kent State or attack peaceful civil rights marches. I find it very appropriate for that time for sure. But you need to update to 2022! I prefer the Hip Hop terminologies that seem to be more driven to the individual police officers mannerisms and actions while being constitutionally protected as free speech. Putting a car into reverse seems to defy reason unless being so afraid of being shot 10x that an error is to be made. I suggest that I would put my car into drive. Thank you for your advice as to reaching into my glove box as I definitely need to update my registration.

 

By the way, the cop in the “roll up the window” case was fired and the family got 200k.

Police officer arrests man for rolling car window up

 

I don’t think we should say it’s ok, I am saying expecting perfection across a data set that large is nearly statistically impossible. There is almost no action on planet earth that would be successful 62 million times out of 62 million, let slime one involving human interaction.
Put a different way, how many cases of medical malpractice occur a year? No one thinks that’s ok, but it probably kills a hundred times the number of people police do illegally.
And yet one gets pages and pages and pages of press and the other s never mentioned.
Why?

 

First, I don't think it's comparable to medical malpractice. It's not just the number of deaths. It's a few things. First, you can be harassed far short of being killed. Second, again, it's the state acting in it's official capacity. Third, we actually do keep stats on death by medical malpractice, far more than we do from police killings, and we actually try as a society to address what are identified as systemic issues. Sometimes not all together successfully. Physicians are notoriously guarded profession that want to self regulate and have a hard time being open. But that's another thread.

Police are the official arm of the state. My problem is not that I'm seeking perfection but I think the culture is broken. I would like them to aspire to be more like the military. It's been commented that soldiers in extremely dangerous situations have more discipline and accountability than do our police.

Mistakes will happen, especially when we put people under extreme stress, which again is another debate. And military accountability is far from perfect. But at least before Trump went on his pardon spree, there was systemic accountability. It wasn't an institution without the capacity to self-regulate, even if not perfectly exercised. I would love it if police could just reach that standard. It's not perfection, but it is a systemic culture of accountability and attempt to improve performance of the mission, to not be self-serving above all.

Two very big issues with the police that are perfectly legitimate. First we are flooded with guns. It's not paranoia to feel constant danger from gun violence.

Second, their mission is different than that of the military. It should be a less violent mission, since it's aimed at fellow citizens. But under our racial caste system, citizens all over the political spectrum expect some systemic harassment and violence to maintain our caste structure. So I'm sympathetic to that. Though I think they way overdo it, about 50% of the problem is them just performing a "mission" that I think should not be part of the mission, but I'm in the distinct minority. I try to be cognizant of that in my criticism

 

You were correct. I like that but still don’t like the actual sculpture

HONORING THE FALLEN - Tampa Bay Times

 

Great thread on police “priorities” in one California jurisdiction

 

Race may be a factor but I'd argue that "proactive" policing methods are the bigger problem that create the dragnet that often involves minorities. In this case it wasn't a minority but that would have been the claim had this subject not been a white kid.

Police don't analyze rewards vs costs during these type of policing and interactions. Sometimes it's a rogue cop but sometimes it's the agency and their policies. The nature of policing in my area for example varies drastically from city to city.

 

Agree with all that.

 

On another note, in this day and age of body cams and phone cams this is the way you combat this stuff. Not with physical resistance. And I say that knowing that I would have a hard time staying as composed as this kid did.

 

really comes down to quality control in reviewing as much as possible, resources and expertise. If their boss was an admin type vs enforcement can also have big differences in instruction.

 

I have worked with some great people who were cops and then I've worked with some robots who think this type of work is legitimate. Sometimes it's the robots that work their way up the ranks. I had a similar type of interaction as this kid in the video years ago. Years later I worked as a medic for that same agency only because the cop that had stopped me had long since left the dept. Idiscussed my experience with a couple of cops there. Some shook their heads and said that sounded like something he would have done and they werent surprised. One supervisor defended the stop and still couldn't admit it served no purpose other than to damage the relationship between a citizen and the agency. The other supervisor agreed with me and said the stop was overkill because the reason for the initial stop was b.s. and there was not enough PC to investigate me further.

The robotic supervisor has since promoted again and remains with the agency while the supervisor that had more common sense and discretion is gone....

 

good! That was awful.

 

Police officer shoots an unarmed young man and kills him in San Jose. DA decides not to press charges. After the civil suit verdict comes out against the police officer, the city gets a restraining order against the mother of the son who was killed for her so-called threatening posts on Facebook

San Jose mom slapped with restraining order after police kill son - San José Spotlight

 

There is an awful lot more to that story than reported in that link though.

San Jose: Fatal police shooting capped week-plus pursuit