My wife would feel the exact same way about your previous comment… Heartbroken!!! And the continued justification.
What are you here for? To play referee or audition for moderator? If my posts are tiresome and predictable, there's any number of solutions for you.
You and your wife have every reason to feel the way you do. But why should your feelings dictate the actions of other people when said actions have no effect on your life one way or another? Want justification to keep abortion safe and legal? How about avoid the septic wards that existed mostly because of illegal abortion attempts pre Roe. Outlawing something that still has significant demand has no effect. See Prohibition, the war on drugs. or read about the septic wards pre-Roe. As for the individual women who choose to abort? That's their own, personal decision. Judge away, if you wish. But I attempt to walk a mile in another's shoes before I make final judgement. In the case of being pregnant, I find that impossible. Said pregnancy being unwanted? Even more difficult.
Problem is you don't want to debate you just want to act like you don't understand a post that a 5 year old could understand. Here is my position in plain speak 1. I believe in Abortion on demand in the first 15 weeks of pregnancy 2. I believe that abortion should be legal when it comes to the Health of the woman at any time 3. I believe exceptions should always be made for Rape and Incest (although I believe that is easily decided in the first 15 weeks). 4.I believe a viable human life deserves some protections once it is no longer just a Fetus 5. I do not believe in late term abortions of convenience because a woman changed her mind. Now I hope you understand my position, I don't think I can express myself any more clearly. What exactly is yours.
My position is abortion should be legal and funded by the government in the form of universal healthcare, and that 'late term abortions' aren't a thing, especially a thing that anyone has for "convenience." My other position is that I am a man, and probably shouldnt be the one making abortion policy for women. Also weird how you dropped the thing about being in the conversation and expanding rights. I guess we wont find out what you meant. Sure seems like you want to restrict rights not expand them.
Also, I have to ask why were you against the Roe status quo when this is basically what it had established? You also said it was good to make it a state issue and now say you support guaranteed access for 15 weeks? How does that work without federal intervention of some kind whether the courts or law?
I do know that 80% of all abortions take place within the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. So by that definition alone your examples are an outlier. I am sorry but I just disagree that unconditional abortion is good for society. Just like I don't believe a mother should be able to kill her child because it has uncontrollable colic. I know that is an extreme example but it is an argument that can be made by those who think the life of a child should be solely in the hands of the mother. There must be some protections for life itself. We need to make laws that fit the norm and let the extreme cases be decided by our judicial system. That's why we have a court system, to judicate outlier situations
And was likely going to die regardless of the law. Again, making something illegal doesn't prevent supply from meeting demand. If it did, Prohibition and the war on drugs would be effective. There are also countries where abortion is illegal where young women take two lives, because abortion is unavailable. In El Salvador, suicide represents 57% of deaths in young girls age 10-19, and ranks as the 4th leading cause of death in women 20-49 years old. A good number of these women were pregnant. We would do much better focusing on comprehensive sex education that lowers the number of unwanted pregnancies, which subsequently lowers abortion rates. Outlawing abortion doesn't save anyone, but likely costs more lives with higher suicide rates. And more future lives, as illegal abortions aren't as safe as legal ones, leaving more women incapable of having kids later on in life.
It's certainly "interesting" that you have people claiming abortion is "infanticide" and "kill[ing] a baby" while simultaneously saying it's okay for abortion to be legal up until 15 weeks and in cases of rape and incest. Of course, it's impossible to square that stance, but I'm used to that from the forced-birth crowd.
I have no issues with sex education. Contraceptives are cheap. We need to stop with the excuses to kill the most innocent for convenience.
Because it was a poorly written law that would never stand the test of time. Just because a bad law was overturned doesn't mean I won't support a better written law. Clear minds must prevail. You can't just go around threatening the lives of Judges doing their job. Have your Congressmen write a better law and we can go from there.
First example was 2nd trimester. Other two were first trimester abortions, as far as I know. As for laws, they need to be easy to follow. Too many gray areas, and all you have are court case after court case and confusion, as the law changes with each judicial decision. And agree there is room for compromise. 15 weeks except in cases of health concerns, as long as there is also government funding for abortions. Similar to laws across most of Europe. Have a law like this, and it would cover about 99% of all abortions that already occur in this country, as 93% are 1st trimester, about 2% are for health concerns, and the #1 reason, by far, a woman waits to abort is financial.
I wondered when you would jump in. I hope we can have a more civilized conversation this time. Simple answer. I do not believe it is murder when you abort a fetus. I do believe it is when you abort a viable living thing. As far as abortion to save a woman's life that is simple self defense. You have a right to kill anything that threatens your own life.
Perfect. Sounds like we agree that before viability, it's not murder. Let's draw the line at viability, yes?
I do think states should have the right to make laws for the people that live there. If you live in a state that doesn't share your values move to one that does. How else are we ever going to live together. Just because I believe something doesn't mean I should force others to support it too. We live in a free country and everyone's opinions should matter. This is a subject that probably divides us more than any other. I don't have all the answers I just know we can't just go on hating each other for what we believe.
This has been an internal conflict for me for years. It is a conflict I rarely share with anyone because the topic is so heated. The keyboard gives me a bit of anonymity. -On the one hand I believe with every fiber of my being that ending a pregnancy is dead wrong. Hearing that heartbeat the first time is a joy like no other. -On the other hand I don't believe government should make choices regarding people's physical health. That is between a person and their doctor only. This makes me a bad Republican AND a bad Democrat. Similar conflicts also exist within in me. Perhaps for another thread.
If you have been reading my posts you will see I have been saying that all along. However my opinion doesn't make someone with a different opinion wrong. That's when we start to get into trouble. Explain your position and see if that persuades someone to see a subject in a different way. Don't just call them names and discount their ideas. Your ideas are no better than theirs...just different.
I don't think most Democrats think you're a bad person just because you think abortion is wrong. If you think the government should stay out of it and leave the choice to the woman and her doctors, I'd say you have the right take. You're entitled to your personal views on abortion. If we agree that viability is the appropriate line, further discussion seems unnecessary. Why spoil a good thing?
