The difference? Even if just 1 in 7 people can nurture a newborn, that's literally 1 billion people on the planet who can take care of someone after first breath. But before in utero viability? That number is 1--the mother. If someone who has just given birth wants to responsibility for taking care of the newborn, they can legally give up any and all rights; and there are plenty of adults who can take care of the baby. But rewind 6 months, and same woman at the end of the first trimester, and nobody on the planet but her has the ability to nurture the fetus to the next stage of life.
It needs to be a loaded term when we are discussing the legal killing of the most innocent. At the end of the day it is calling a spade a spade. The reason for killing the most innocent among us via abortion is for convenience. It is right around 99% of the time...
I don't think I can be more clear. Our nation is horribly divided over the Abortion issue. My question is simple. Is there any common ground we can get to that will work for main stream America. All we do is throw daggers and insults at each other. There will always be extremists that are never content. I was hoping to hear from someone like you who has very strong feelings on the subject if there is any common ground we can come to. If you say to me no there is no common ground than I respect that and understand why we are having a hard time coming together as a country. I am not just trying to be reasonable. I don't know you and I don't hate you for your opinions. I have been trying to explain my position in hopes of finding common ground. It's as simple as that.
What an awful justification to kill ones own child. Sorry. But this might be the most heartbreaking post I have ever read on too hot.
Travelinggator, you may enjoy interacting with wgb…some folks like the way it feels when banging a hammer on their fingers too. He just wants to debate. I’m afraid you can’t get an honest word from his keyboard. I think he read a thousand too many books or something.
I am not trying to be obtuse here. My meaning of "a say" is that the sperm doner should be allowed into the conversation even if its to hear the Mother say "I am having an Abortion and I don't care what you think". The sperm doner's rights are greatly expanded in my opinion once a fetus becomes a living person.
So once you eliminate the father from the picture without his consent, how do you magically make him responsible for anything that happens after that? You can't. There is now an unspoken understanding now that the father's role in a child's life beyond the five minutes he spent delivering half of the blueprint is never his choice, but whatever the mother wants it to be. If he's lucky, the mother respects the role of fatherhood beyond writing the checks and paying the bills. But it's her choice. Forever.
I assume you're a male. Have never faced the prospect of an unwanted pregnancy. Neither have I. I try to have empathy, but find it impossible to put myself in the shoes of a woman with an unwanted pregnancy. But I can imagine, if I was said woman, I know I wouldn't want the state or church involved in any of my personal decisions. I have known three women admit to having an abortion. One was 2nd semester, ectopic pregnancy here in Arizona. If the state's territorial law or 15 week ban law as written goes into effect, someone facing the same issue would be denied abortion, and the mother's life would be at risk. And the fetus won't live regardless. The other two were younger, with situations much more complicated. One was finalizing a divorce, was offered a once-in-a-lifetime work opportunity overseas for a 2-year commitment, and got pregnant with a fling that ghosted her the minute she said she was pregnant. The other was a college student that had a very difficult home life and mistook physical intimacy with love, and ended up pregnant and not knowing who the father was. Made her own decision, and later found true love, got married, and has two great kids today. I don't know what I would have done if it were me in the shoes of the latter two women, or if the woman in the first case is denied healthcare because of what the state law is. But I know it's extremely complicated decision, and unless any woman wants to include me in their discussion and decision, it's none of my business. Nor is it your business. You have a right to deride these women and their decisions, but their life is not yours to dictate. Nor should it be the government's or any church's.
I appreciate your observation and maybe you are right but somehow we need people that are willing to interact with each other on issues we are diametrically opposed to in order to help heal us from this uncontrollable hatred we have towards each other. Or else we are just spitting in the wind.
The three women you mention are gut wrenching stories and I am sympathetic to each of their stories. In your first example I agree exceptions must be made for the health of the woman however your other 2 stories while sad are not quite as sad, its more of an inconvenience, as taking the life of a human being. I suspect that these stories are the exception not the norm when it comes to abortion. My personal opinion is that societal laws should stand for the betterment of society as a whole not the extreme cases. You can not discount that there is a living entity that is being destroyed with no voice to stop it.
What conversation exactly? You are free to express yourself at any point during a pregnancy, there is no gag order on what you think. I would hope you have the kind of relationship where you and your partner are on the same page. But if the woman you knocked up doesn't want to talk to you or value your opinion on the matter, or ignores it, you think the government should make her respect it? You should be specific about what 'rights' you think should be expanded. Because to me it sounds like you are tiptoeing around saying you think you should have some kind of veto power and be able to force a birth if you want the child. Because what else could you mean?
A previous poster must be right. You truly are just looking for a fight. You know what I mean and are just trying to keep this conversation on terms you are comfortable addressing. I hope that one day you can find the capacity for compromise or else you will just hate half the country and have no happiness in your life.
How would I know what you mean when you cant even explain what you want? You just keep going on about "being in the conversation" or expanding "rights" without specifics. How can I compromise if you cant even say what you want? You are talking in pleasant sounding buzzwords, because I think if you laid out what you actually want, its pretty unreasonable and extreme and that would ruin your whole faux reasonable thing.
You can't know if these stories are the exceptions or the norms. Every woman getting an abortion has her own story to tell. And if you want laws to stand for the betterment of society, then abortion should be legal. Simply put, outlawing abortion doesn't stop abortion. But what outlawing it does do is lower women's physical health outcomes. Pre Roe, large hospitals in every major city had a full septic ward to deal with women with pregnancy complications. Most of these women had complications because of botched, illegal abortion attempts. Many women were left incapable of ever being pregnant again.
The nerve of people wanting to debate on a debate forum! That begs the question of why you are here ... to post gifs and drive by post about other posters? If you need attention just say so. There might be better ways to get it though.
Problem is you’re here to play professor. I don’t think you’re here to learn and listen. Most days…It’s tiresome and predictable. Honestly, I have no idea what you stand for.
