Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    17,561
    2,791
    1,618
    Apr 3, 2007
    Russians rocketing Kyiv. No military benefit

     
  2. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    9,923
    1,296
    428
    Sep 11, 2022
    Understanding Russia's reason for wanting to "annex" is key. It doesn't appear to me Putin is attempting to rebuild the old USSR. I think he would have thrown more at Ukraine if that was the case. He was willing to occupy Kyiv if it was easy to do, but he hasn't thrown the full thrust of the Russian military at Ukraine. That leads me to believe he's content with preventing Ukraine from joining NATO, which controlling the Donbass and Crimea (therefore the Black Sea) allows him to do. NATO will never accept a fractured Ukraine as a member state. It's also been reported that Putin was willing to accept this compromise to end the war, which again lends to the belief he doesn't need to annex all of Ukraine to be happy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
  3. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,932
    2,104
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    And the 2014 “annexation” of Crimea?
     
  4. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

    17,775
    5,769
    3,313
    Apr 3, 2007
    Philadelphia
    Cape:

    You would make pre 1939 American isolationists proud. I find your stance ridiculous to the point of obserdity.

    Of course Ukranian politics was corrupt, mind boggling so pre February.

    and Russias isnt? Or the USA now and especially 2016-2020?

    You dishonor all the blood and capital spent by Western Europe and the USA since 1945.

    You would surrender S Korea, The middle east, Western Europe, Taiwan and every where else in the world to totalitarians.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  5. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    9,923
    1,296
    428
    Sep 11, 2022
    It was done to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO, in response the Maidan Revolution in Kyiv where western powers conspired to have a Kremlin puppet (Yanukovych) ousted from office. Whatever we think about the good, evil and so forth of this, if we're being honest about it, we can see Russia has always viewed Ukraine as a security risk and a red line. ie this isn't simply Putin gobbling up more "lebensraum". It's being done for a strategical purpose and that purpose is to keep Ukraine out of NATO, because Russia sees it (for right or wrong) as a huge security threat to their survival as a nation.
     
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 3
  6. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,932
    2,104
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    You are overthinking it. There is no scenario in which Putin is “content” with the embarrassing string of tactical losses his military has suffered. He is not holding back. He is not engaging in military deception. What you are seeing is the best Putin can field without rendering himself unacceptably vulnerable in another area. Everyone, myself included, is understandably confused how we could have analyzed Russian capabilities and limitations so poorly, but as I’ve pointed out in other posts this isn’t the first time and won’t be the last that the best available minds have either overrated or underrated an adversary. Now what can still change is that Russia can grow and improve from its deficiencies, and I remain perplexed that it has not.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    16,102
    1,191
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    What is self-talk?
    Self-talk is the way you talk to yourself, or your inner voice. You might not be aware that you're doing it, but you almost certainly are. This inner voice combines conscious thoughts with inbuilt beliefs and biases to create an internal monologue throughout the day.

    Self-talk is important because it has a big impact on how you feel and what you do. It can be supportive and beneficial, motivating you, or it can be negative, undermining your confidence.
     
  8. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    9,923
    1,296
    428
    Sep 11, 2022
    He sent roughly 130,000 or so troops into Ukraine, which is smaller than the initial deployment the US sent into Iraq in 2003. I think he may have miscalculated Ukraine's readiness to respond, but I don't think he's brought the full force of Russia's military against Ukraine yet. And I realize he can't deploy the entire military into Ukraine as it would leave Russia vulnerable in so many other places.
     
  9. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    16,102
    1,191
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    Boiled down ...

    upload_2022-10-10_13-21-16.jpeg
     
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 2
  10. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    31,574
    12,058
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    If he could, he would overrun Ukraine in a blitzkrieg. With no ability to control the air, a severe shortage of smart weapons (and no chips to build new ones or chip making capacity), a corrupted supply line full of antiquated and poorly manufactured equipment, and an army full of conscripts that want no part of it he is left neutered without the ability to even stop the advance of the Ukranians. They sent their best Wagner group forces into battle and they are getting chewed up now that Ukraine has modern artillery and rocket systems
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

    20,910
    1,738
    1,763
    Apr 8, 2007
  12. jeffbrig

    jeffbrig GC Hall of Fame

    1,500
    557
    2,003
    Aug 7, 2007
    Apparently I also missed the event where Zelensky poked the russians by rolling tanks into Moscow. But hey, what do I know?
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 3
  13. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    16,102
    1,191
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    I doubt that Volodymyr likes me much.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2022
  14. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    16,102
    1,191
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    For starters, shelled civilians in the Donbas for years. Remember when ethnic cleansing was a thing ?
     
  15. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    16,102
    1,191
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    upload_2022-10-10_14-43-13.jpeg
     
  16. coleg

    coleg GC Hall of Fame

    1,817
    775
    1,903
    Sep 5, 2011
    How was Ukraine going to be in NATO? They were never even offered membership? Now that Finland and Sweden will be NATO, how's that "possible in the far future Ukraine membership" stack up as a security threat ? Sorry but an ousted Putin puppet is NOT acceptable grounds for invasion of a sovereign nation.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

    3,906
    816
    268
    Jul 2, 2022
    DeLand
    He doesn’t need all of Ukraine to be happy today. Just like when Russia stole crimea. Putin was happy for a while and then wanted more.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  18. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

    3,906
    816
    268
    Jul 2, 2022
    DeLand
    Neville Carpevitas, your blather is reminiscent of chamberlain’s proclamation of peace in our time. Some dictators need to be beaten and deposed to stop their expansion. Putin is one of those.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Wish I would have said that Wish I would have said that x 1
  19. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

    22,994
    5,647
    3,488
    Apr 3, 2007
    Yeah if all he can get now is Donbas, he will come back with another excuse for central Ukraine in a few years.
    There’s a reason he started with Kiev, he wanted to install a puppet government. That wish hasn’t gone away. Anyone who thinks this was about the east only is in some wishful thinking.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

    15,314
    13,210
    1,853
    Apr 8, 2007
    Yep, he wants a collection of vassal states on his frontier that become de facto parts of a greater Russian Empire. He doesn't want a western style democracy on his door step (might make his natives restless).
     
    • Agree Agree x 2