If by Russian bot you mean somebody who doesn’t hate Russians, doesn’t believe history started 2/24/22 and who despises US foreign policy ... that’s me.
What Musk proposes in that tweet might have actually been a valid diplomatic resolution eight months ago. Now it’s a nonstarter. Russia decided to settle the matter by force of arms. So let’s settle it. And if I’m Ukraine the only points on which I would negotiate now is future NATO membership and the future of Russians living in Ukraine: if Russia leaves all of Ukraine immediately, Ukraine will pledge to remain neutral and leave a path for ethnic Russians to remain; if not, Russia will still have to return to its January 2014 borders, take all of the Russians with them, and possibly face a NATO Ukraine in the future.
It was pretty close to what Putin has been asking for for years. But we couldn’t have agreed to that and had a war too.
No need to go off topic. I was just noting that you have the date of your murderous invasion memorized. Vlad must be proud.
This entire thread is arguably an exercise in whataboubtery. So I threw in the date of another murderous invasion.
Man, I might take it a step further on the NATO thing if I'm Ukraine. The Russian incursion has confirmed the need for Ukrainian NATO membership. And after all the lies and deception, why should Ukraine assume Russia would honor such a negotiation? I think Zelenskyy will forge full speed ahead with the NATO membership. I wouldn't cede a damn thing if I was Ukraine at this point. Too much evidence pointing to a possible coup scenario in Moscow the longer this plays out.
if the question was being asked in a vacuum, I understand, but it isn't. As it is, we know about the terrible war crimes being committed by the russian troops and their bands of merc's. Expecting some sort of accountability as to where the weapons end up is reasonable, questioning if the aid is justifiable at this point isn't. jmo.
Even if you equated the two, one murderous invasion doesn't make another one okay. Also the stated mission of the US going into Iraq was accomplished. They hung Saddam Hussein. Russia's mission? Yikes...not going so well.
wow, powerful stuff that we can't even imagine Only a few mins here. Ran out of ammo and backed off south. Am a bit traumatized and need some sleep. I have no idea what is going on except we engaged a lot of elements headed to Kreminna. They have to be coming from Lyman and Zarichne. Right now we are in a safe area, it seems. I have never seen so many dead, soon to be dead, and wounded people in my life. People begging for help, but no way we can help them. We have little to help them with, a small medical kit each, no morphine, and no time to render any kind of useful aid. No idea if they will live or die. You just keep moving. One guy had obviously stepped on a mine by the side of the road. One leg was gone at mid-thigh, the other one was broken lower down and his foot was backward. He was trying to crawl somewhere on one good knee, trailing flowing blood out of a busted artery. Unless he got help quick, he was gone. He was talking calmly in Russian, saying over-and-over, “I will be home soon mother.” Christ. You and your guys ok? Yeah, just tired and mentally warped. At one point, we were running down the side of the road and —— slipped in a pool of blood running into the ditch from a still living Russian laying across the stripe (dead people don’t bleed very fast…only gravity feed), and he slid onto the shoulder and got up cussing with blood all over him. “get me some water, this fucking cunt probably has some kind of fulminating disease.” We almost fell over laughing.
It's perfectly justifiable to weigh the pro's and con's of sending more military aid to Ukraine, even with what we know today. I hope that, as a nation, we continue having that conversation, in fact. Never should we lose sight of the implications of sending billions of dollars of military hardware into a foreign land. Again, I agree with your stance on the issue, but taking the discussion off the table is dangerous.
Done. Yeah, I looked back through some of his posts. It's quite bizarre that a Gators sports forum has attracted a Russian bot. I'm not quite sure what purpose he serves as it doesn't appear he has swayed any opinions here. In any case, I think the best thing is for as many of us to ignore him as possible.
To argue for the other side, compromising on NATO and the future of Russians in Ukraine might be worth it if Ukraine could move back into its stolen lands without the lost time, resources, and lives it will require to take them back by force. It’s a moot point anyway because as long as Putin holds power such a trade won’t happen. He is going to have to be overthrown first, and who knows how many more will die while we are waiting for that to happen.
Even if Ukraine does not end up in NATO, I'm sure they will arm themselves to the teeth to dissuade Ivan from ever attempting this again.
Yep, agree. Putin will never give up. I do think Russians will end up ousting him and that's how this will all end..
