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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    We will see if the people there feel differently after Ukraine is back in charge of those territories and the Russian soldiers, weapons, and collaborators are back on their side of the border. Then we will all hold a “plebiscite” voted in Ukraine by Ukrainians. Care to bet that the election swings back Ukraine’s way?

    upload_2022-9-24_7-46-46.jpeg
     
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  2. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Nah, nah, nah, man. Those Javelins have, like, misfired or bounced off that invulnerable Russian armor. That’s why you don’t have a bunch of video, photographic, and physical evidence of destroyed Russian tanks and instead you have a bunch of pictures of smiling Russians with captured Javelins, intact, after they’ve easily overrun Ukrainian positions.
     
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  3. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    A certain historic parallel comes immediately to mind. In 1938 a certain German with a funny mustache rationalized the invasion of the Sudetenland on the basis that the ethnic German population of that part of Czechoslovakia was entitled to self-determination. Putin's invasion of Ukraine and his recognition of those areas of the Donbas as "republics" independent of the rest of Ukraine including his phony referendum are strikingly similar to what happened in Czechoslovakia in 1938 and 1939.
    Although both of these columns were actually written when Russia invaded Ukraine in February their thesis has really been confirmed by the events of the last couple of weeks.
    The 'dangerous parallels' between Ukraine 'invasion' and Nazis in the Sudetenland | Daily Mail Online
    Putin’s attack on Ukraine echoes Hitler’s takeover of Czechoslovakia
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2022
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  4. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Something even funnier to remember is that same wire brush mustached individual did not just take Austria (or the Sudetenland or the rest of Czechoslovakia …) and say, “Sweet! My good deed for the German people is done.” There was always another pocket of ethnic Germans just over the hill who needed liberation. The appeasers should remember well that we already know Russia intended to roll over Moldova next. Where exactly do they think the Russians intended to stop for all time?
     
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  5. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    It was not possible for Ukraine to fight the war in another country. It probably would not work to set up combat zones away from the civilians. If the Russians are intent on taking over the cities, then Ukraine is going to have to fight in the cities to take them back, and civilians are going to get hurt. The report was foolish and ignorant of the realities of warfare. I understand that Amnesty International has re-named itself Amateurishly International.
     
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  6. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    If only we could get Putin to wear a funny mustache and a wig combed over to one side. Then even the most blind propaganda-peddlers would recognize the similarities.

    A Time cover showing Putin with Hitler’s mustache isn’t real - Poynter

    Putin's Photo With Hitler Moustache, Nazi Symbol As Time Cover Is Fake

     
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  7. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    Only time will tell. Given Zelensky's latest statement it sounds as if a purge is coming should Ukraine regain the territory.
     
  8. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The majority of countries in the world aren't big enough to create a military that is strong enough to defend itself from countries like Russia and China. They have to rely on the U.S. to protect them. In return, they make products and trade with the U.S. The entire system works extremely well because if each of the 190+ nations on earth were committed to developing their own armies and defending themselves against the biggest bully in the region, they would periodically get into disagreements with their immediate neighbors and settle it with warfare. In other words, the entire world would turn into the Middle East, with non-stop fighting. Maybe that appeals to you because you live in a relatively safe country. But it would be disastrous, and many traveling Americans would get caught in the cross-fire.

    The other countries prosper specifically because the U.S. is providing security for them. Imagine that?
     
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  9. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Doubtful. His top priority will be re-building the country. And the West will absolutely refuse to help with that if post-war purges are taking place. There may be some arrests and trials of people if they engaged in any war crimes in support of Russia, but that it is to be expected.
     
  10. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    One also has to consider WW II had a coalition of forces that included the majority of the European nations and the US. That is not the case with Russia and Ukraine.
     
  11. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Londonstan? Lots of russian interests there that need protecting
     
  12. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Uh, yeah, that’s more or less what I wrote. Historically, those things tend to happen after an armed rebellion, especially if you bring in foreign troops. If Putin’s intention is to maximize the hatred for ethnic Russians in Ukraine, then he should continue along the same path. If what he really wants is to guarantee protections for ethnic Russians, then my advice is to negotiate that as a condition for full withdrawal while he still has some land to negotiate with. If you think the Ukrainians will be more merciful with those who gave aid and comfort to the enemy after having to fight tooth and nail for every inch of territory back, then I would say that wish is inconsistent with the realities of history. We would do no differently here under similar circumstances.
     
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  13. carpeveritas

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    Two interesting articles from Der Spiegel both are long read but worth the time to understand what Germany is facing in the coming months / years.

    A Grave Threat to Industry in Germany

    There is hardly any doubt left that Germany is facing recession. The first bits of bad news have begun trickling in, likely just the beginning. The toilet paper manufacturer Hakle, the shoe store chain Görtz and the auto parts supplier Dr. Schneider have all filed for insolvency. Companies from energy-intensive sectors like the chemical, steel and paper industries have reduced production or suspended it altogether, such as the fertilizer producer SKW Piesteritz. "Instead of the economic recovery we had been hoping for, Germany is set to experience a painful recession,” says Stefan Kooths, vice president of the Kiel Institute for the World Economy (IfW).
    ......
    And EU member states are standing in the way of each other. France is opposed to the expansion of a gas pipeline to Spain because it wants to protect its own domestic energy market. Germany wants to shut down its three remaining nuclear plants even though its EU neighbors are urging Berlin to keep them online. The Netherlands is reluctant to continue exploiting natural gas deposits in the region near Groningen after a number of earthquakes there have been linked to the exploitation. Everyone is doing their own thing.
    ........
    Experts from the Brussels-based think tank Bruegel say that an EU-wide trading platform is necessary, through which national governments in Europe would first consider the continent’s needs before addressing national and party-specific considerations. But very few member states are interested in doing that. At the end of the day, they argue, energy policy is a national issue.

    Germany on the Brink
    That the German economy will slide into recession this winter is no longer really a question. And there is growing evidence that it could become particularly severe – with a tenfold increase in the exchange electricity price, numerous corporate bankruptcies and a permanently damaged economy. The losses in prosperity, says economist Michael Fratzscher, will be permanent. Germany, according to the forecasts, is in decline.
    .......
    And EU member states are standing in the way of each other. France is opposed to the expansion of a gas pipeline to Spain because it wants to protect its own domestic energy market. Germany wants to shut down its three remaining nuclear plants even though its EU neighbors are urging Berlin to keep them online. The Netherlands is reluctant to continue exploiting natural gas deposits in the region near Groningen after a number of earthquakes there have been linked to the exploitation. Everyone is doing their own thing.
    ......
    Still, Germany's leaders are at least aware that quickly fabricated cash gifts to calm the masses are not a sustainable solution in the constant fire of crises around the world. There simply isn't enough money available given the large number of problems and increasingly precarious situation.
    Emphasis mine.
     
  14. PITBOSS

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    outstanding post, thanks. It’s fascinating to hear perspective from someone there, either Ukrainian or Russian. it’s one man’s perspective/feedback and so many facets to all this, but very insightful. Let us know if you get updates from him.
     
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  15. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I was more thinking about the Baltics and all of the various ‘stans, but yeah empire growing never ends until another party ends it.
     
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  16. G8trGr8t

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    Iranian drones doing some damage to artillery and even HQ buildings. Ukraine revokes Iran ambassador accreditation

    Iran responds to Ukraine diplomatic demotion over Russia drones (msn.com)

    Iran says it will “respond appropriately” to Ukraine’s revoking of its ambassador’s accreditation over alleged drone sales to Russia while not directly denying it sold the aircraft.

    In a short statement on Saturday, Iran’s foreign ministry spokesman Nasser Kanani said Ukraine’s decision to downgrade diplomatic relations with Iran was “regrettable” and based on “unconfirmed reports” by foreign media.

    Kanani did not mention drones or explicitly deny that Tehran has supplied them to Moscow, but said Iran has exercised a “clear policy of active neutrality” when dealing with the war in Ukraine as it has stressed hostilities need to be resolved through dialogue.

    “The numerous meetings and calls of our country’s foreign minister with Russian and Ukrainian counterparts in recent months have been in line with helping to resolve the crisis,” he said.

    Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said in a video address on Friday the downgrade in diplomatic relations with Iran is because Ukrainian forces shot down a total of eight Iranian-made drones recently sold to Russia and used in the conflict.
     
  17. G8trGr8t

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    The importance of Ukraine crack down on Iran over drone sales (msn.com)

    Ukraine is outraged that Iran has been supplying weapons to Russia. Oleg Nikolenko, the spokesman for Ukraine’s foreign ministry wrote that “in response to Iran supplying weapons to Russia to use in its war against Ukraine, today we announced the revocation of accreditation of the Iranian Ambassador in Kyiv, and a significant drawdown of diplomatic personnel at the Iranian embassy.”

    The Ministry of Defense also slammed Iran on Friday, noting that in 1943, “Tehran became a place of hope for a new life without Nazism. In 2022, fundamentalist Tehran became a place that supports Russian Nazism and the murder of peaceful citizens."
    ........................................
    Washington has sanctioned companies that manufacture and transfer drones to Russia. The Russia drone war on Ukraine, using the Iranian-style drones, has increased in the last several days. Drones have reportedly targeted an area near Odessa, and Ukraine may have even downed a Mohajer-6 style drone.

    As more and more drones were shot down by Ukraine, Kyiv became increasingly angry at Tehran. With the UN General Assembly taking place and Russia appearing isolated, Ukraine has made this decision, which also comes amid massive protests in Iran.
     
  18. duggers_dad

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    To clarify, this is not Ukraine vs. Russia. This is the US fighting Russia with Ukrainian troops.
     
  19. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    As you like. Result is the same.
     
  20. chemgator

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    No, this is Ukraine fighting Russia. Yes, the U.S. and Europe are helping Ukraine, as they should. Playing semantic games about "who is fighting who" does not change the guilt and responsibility that belongs to Russia for this war. Russia started the war without any valid justification, and now they are paying the price, as they should.
     
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