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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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  2. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    because the us exists. Not perfect but it has protected a world order that has allowed many others to prosper for several decades.
     
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  3. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    The average taxpayer pays $2,000 to the military, every year, including $900 to weapons manufacturers.

    And that was BEFORE the war.
     
  4. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    Ok
     
  5. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    That is the hope that many would like to see happen and given past history of the nation I don't see this happening in the near future when the war is over assuming Russia leaves Ukraine.

    There are two languages spoken in Ukraine, Ukrainian and Russian. The Dunbas and Luhansk regions have been and continue to be mainly Russian speaking people.

    It is important to note the areas Russia currently occupies in Dunbas region is where the majority of the natural resources reside. It is also important to note the amount of oil and gas produced in this region prior to the Russian invasion is very little when compared to the oil and gas producing nations across the globe. Coal is the main energy source by far which everyone is trying to avoid while export s of oil and gas have dropped to 0.

    Of course the following information is still playing out at the moment and we have to see what becomes of it. Regardless of the out come Ukraine will still have an issue in the area.

    Russian-occupied Donbas region to hold referenda on annexation
    Russian-occupied territories in eastern Ukraine announced referenda on whether to join the Russian Federation.

    Russian separatists have fought in the Donbas region, which consists of the self-identified Luhansk People's Republic and Donetsk People's Republic, since 2014, and Russian President Vladimir Putin recognized the two regions as independent nations before his military invaded Ukraine in late February.

    This following articles indicate no matter what happens in the future these two regions will not play ball with Ukraine and the issues are far deeper than people want to acknowledge.

    Luhansk People’s Republic proposes referendum to join Russian Federation
    The proposal to join the Russian Federation came at a plenary session of the Luhansk People’s Republics’ parliamentary chamber, which suggested to set up a headquarters in the republic to prepare for a referendum on the matter, as reported by Lug.info


    The decision was reportedly unanimously approved.

    Donetsk People's Republic
    Instead, the self-proclaimed leadership is pushing ahead with a 11 May referendum over the region's future, either as an independent state, autonomous republic within Ukraine or adjoined to Russia.


    "Either we will become an independent state, or we can rejoin Ukraine within a confederation with more freedom to decide what's good for us, not just taking orders from Kyiv," said Alexander Gnezdilov, spokesman for the self-proclaimed republic. "I personally think most people will vote for joining Russia, but it depends on people's opinion."


    Opinion is mixed, and the outcome of any fair referendum is in question. Recent poll numbers show about 26 percent saying they wanted to join Russia, whereas 26.5 percent support remaining within in Ukraine. The rest either wanted to be independent or envisioned a confederated republic of Ukraine with greater autonomy for the regions.
     
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  6. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    As presumably Ukraine is well on its way to prospering because America ? Yemen ? Syria ? Libya ? Afghanistan ? Iraq ? Somalia ?
     
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  7. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    I was thinking of an actual
    battlefield where it was introduced and significantly gave the advantage to one side. And to your point we seem to have to go back over a 100 yrs. Maybe the atomic bomb. That stopped the war immediately
     
  8. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Well, not immediately. But they did immediately kill scores of thousands of mostly women and children and old people.
     
  9. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    Can the grown ups have a conversation,please?
     
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  10. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    It can’t left entirely to the children.
     
  11. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    I see. The Tank helped make battle mobile once again in WWI....
     
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  12. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Looks like Vlad could be leading his military into another disastrous defeat in Ukraine. Seems like a certain former American president, Putin thinks that he knows more military strategy than his generals.
    As Russian Losses Mount in Ukraine, Putin Gets More Involved in War Strategy
    WASHINGTON — President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia has thrust himself more directly into strategic planning for the war in Ukraine in recent weeks, American officials said, including rejecting requests from his commanders on the ground that they be allowed to retreat from the vital southern city of Kherson.

    A withdrawal from Kherson would allow the Russian military to pull back across the Dnipro River in an orderly way, preserving its equipment and saving the lives of soldiers.

    But such a retreat would be another humiliating public acknowledgment of Mr. Putin’s failure in the war, and would hand a second major victory to Ukraine in one month. Kherson was the first major city to fall to the Russians in the initial invasion, and remains the only regional capital under Moscow’s control. Retaking it would be a major accomplishment for President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine.

    The officials said that Mr. Putin’s rejection of a military pullback from Kherson has also led to a decrease in morale among Russian troops who have been mostly cut off from their supply lines, and who appear to believe they could be left stranded against Ukrainian forces.
     
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  13. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Some of before and after pictures of different cities in Ukraine and it wasn't America that was responsible for the destruction.
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes, but not immediately. It had to be effectively integrated with other arms. When first introduced at the Battle of the Somme in 1916, the tank did very little. The first hint of its potential the break the stalemate came at Cambrai the following year, but even then German counterattack ultimately won the battle without tanks. I don’t dispute that armor was useful to the allies, but it probably wasn’t decisive. The failed German Spring Offensive that spent its last manpower advantage and the introduction of one million fresh Americans to the Western Front was what broke Germany’s back.
     
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  15. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Uh huh.
     
  16. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The average taxpayer probably gets 2-3 times that much in additional purchasing power from all of the free trade that the military allows the U.S. to engage in. What's your point? Do you not like free trade? Or are you so naive to assume that all nations would continue to engage in free trade if Russia and China were free to continue their colonization of most of the rest of the world?
     
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  17. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Soldiers are going door to door collecting ballots. Do you have any doubt as to the outcome of this supposed vote? Seriously?

    Lots of cubans in Miami. Maybe castro should have a claim. Lot of mexicans in Texas? Move the border anyone?
     
  18. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    You missed the point of my post which is Donetsk and Luhnsk don't want to play ball with Ukraine and this will not change. The issues between the regions and Ukraine were going on well before the war between Russia and Ukraine began. Those issues will not be resolved even if Russia leaves the area.
     
  19. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Come on, man. Don’t waste your time arguing with someone over the legitimacy of these plebiscites. Of course, they are not real. Everyone knows that. When Hitler moved into Austria et al, he also held plebiscites, and ostensibly the people overwhelmingly voted to be in the Third Reich. I don’t think anyone seriously disputes those elections were shams either. The election results were predetermined. Does anyone actually think there is any possibility that these elections don’t go the way Russia demands? And just for fun let’s say the people voted Russia out and we in the West were allowed to learn about it. Does anyone actually think Russia would just leave? If the answer to both of those questions is no, then there’s point doing other than ignoring this mummer’s farce and continuing to settle the matter with blood and steel as Russia initially decided (when settling it that way looked fun and easy).
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2022
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  20. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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