to the family of a teen run over on I4 after sheriffs office evicted him and others from state fair. The jury got this so wrong. WTH is the sheriffs office liable for the kid runnign out into traffic. They weren't chasing him . Sheriff must pay $15M for death of Florida teen outside fair (msn.com) The teenager wound up on Interstate 4 after he and others were kicked out of the fair for what deputies described as an altercation that included knocking over fair patrons and stealing from vendors. Attorneys for the defendants said Joseph refused an offer for a ride from his football coach and instead decided to try to cross the highway to reach the main gate. “It was not foreseeable that someone would leave and enter the interstate,” attorney Robert Fulton said. The plaintiffs' attorney said the boy should never have been placed in such a vulnerable situation by authorities.
If those are the facts.. and the only pertinent facts… this seems like a bad judgement. Along these lines… why does it seem every year we hear more and more of kids running amok and causing injury, damage , and mayhem at the fair. Maybenim just old but it seems it gets worse each year.
The kid was 14 years old. So seems like a bad decision to just kick these kids out and turn them loose vs. turning over to the parents. Without knowing anything previously about this case, I’m guessing this was the argument presented to the jury. Here’s the issue I have, the parents are also responsible (or should have been). I’m guessing this kid wasn’t at the fair with his parents and thus was running loose. That’s a failure of parenting, so doesn’t make sense for the sheriff to have to pay… the parents as the plaintiffs. Not in this case as the events indeed were somewhat unforeseen and if there was a failure it should at least be 50/50 with the parents for not having better tabs on their kids.
Yeah. I'll reserve judgment since the jury heard the facts and I didn't but I have a lot of questions. The kid refused a ride from his football coach. Was the coach there by coincidence or was it a group event? Were they there totally unsupervised which at least seems like it based on the stealing from vendors and other physical altercations. If that's the case then they were fit to be there unsupervised but once removed it's the cops fault for putting them in a "vulnerable " situation? Did the cops reach out to the parents? If they had opportunities to do so but didn't then they deserve some culpability for certain because you always have to attempt to contact a parent or adult. But again, I can't say firmly what they did or didn't do wrong without knowing way more information.
The group of kids were dropped off unsupervised by any adult. The kids cell phone showed he made 20 calls/texts after he was kicked out. Not ono was to his parents to come pick him up. This was gross negligence by the parents but a jury found it easier to blame the police. This was a money grab by the family and their lawyers.
Typical ignorance. From the Times. If it's negligent to have kids there unsupervised, then there was a whole lot of negligence, since that by design The case centered on what occurred in and around the state fairgrounds on the night of Feb. 7, 2014. It was Student Day at the fair, a tradition in which local schoolchildren are given free admission.
So then who is responsible? The fair? The fair actually invites unsupervised kids? That’s the thing when dealing with minors, minors are incapable of being “responsible” for their own actions, so sounds like the jury just bought the notion that the Sheriffs office was the last responsible party and thus the responsibility fell on them almost by default. Even though they had zero direct connection for the actual tragic incident on I-4.
The article in the OP is quite devoid of the facts. Here are a couple relevant facts: Back on February 7, 2014, there was a commotion between several teenagers during Student Day at the State Fair. That led to 99 teens, including Andrew, being detained by Hillsborough County deputies and kicked out of the fair. The 14-year-old's parents said they were never notified their son was kicked out, adding that their son was negligently left alone. Andrew then tried to cross I-4, but he was hit and killed by a car. -------------------------- They kicked out 99 teens because a few teens got into a fight? And then they just turned these kids loose without notifying the parents? Yeah, the cops had this one coming. More facts: https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/...ii-15m-in-wrongful-death-lawsuit-against-hcso The 14-year-old went to Student Day at the fair on February 7, 2014. His father said he saw deputies detaining some of his friends. When he approached, the deputies detained him as well. The group of about 99 teenagers was questioned, photographed, and then driven off of the fairgrounds property to find their own way home. Joseph was later hit by the SUV and killed on his way to his ride. ----------------------------------------------------- Oh hey, even more facts! Judge in Andrew Joseph III trial scolds Hillsborough Sheriff for arresting witness Porrino was friends with Joseph and saw him just before HCSO took the 14-year-old into custody and ejected him from the Florida State Fair on Feb. 7 2014, despite no evidence of him committing a crime. Joseph died later that night on I-4 while trying to find his way home, after an HCSO deputy allegedly told him and his friend that they had to cross the interstate to get back to their ride. ------------------------------------------------ BTW, this case was tried in federal court. It's much, much harder to get a case to trial in federal court than state court. Federal judges scrutinize cases much more closely and will boot weak lawsuits at the motion to dismiss or summary judgment phases. The fact that this case made it to trial, despite all of the protections cops have from federal lawsuits, means the evidence is stronger than some of you believe. EDIT: Found an article with even more facts: Jury finds Hillsborough sheriff’s officials are to blame in boy’s death [After deputies detained Joseph] He was taken to a processing area, where he was held for about 40 minutes. He and the others who’d been detained were then driven to the edge of the fairgrounds, near Orient Road, and released. Corey Thornton, who was 12 years old at the time, was the last person with Andrew Joseph that night. Now 21, he testified that they struggled to find their way back to the main gate, where they hoped to meet their ride home. Thornton said an unidentified deputy near Gate 4, from which they’d been ejected, refused to let them walk back through the fair, threatened to arrest them and told them that the only thing separating them from the main gate was the interstate.
Who is responsible? The parents. And let’s be real…most 14 year-olds have enough common sense to not try to cross I-4 on foot. But then again, most kids don’t go to a state fair to assault innocent people and steal from vendors.
And now I found the Eleventh Circuit case that affirmed the denial of immunity for the cops. Feel free to read the fact section: https://media.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/unpub/files/202011073.pdf The facts demonstrate that the cops violated Florida law multiple times when Andrew was in custody and then placed him in the exact situation that ended up leading to his death.
Oh look, another person jumping to conclusions in this thread without bothering to look into the actual facts. It's quite impressive that you're blaming the parents when Florida law required the cops to contact the parents when they detained their kid and to only release the kid to the parents or another responsible adult. The cops violated both of these laws.
The plaintiffs had to prove negligence here for wrongful death. So let's talk about some of the facts that I've discovered reading the Eleventh Circuit opinion and the articles from the media: Andrew was dropped off with friends by a friend's mom at the main gate. Multiple witnesses testified that Andrew did not break the law and was detained merely because he tried to see why his friends were being arrested. While the officers had him in custody, they failed to contact his parents. Florida law required that they try to do that. The officers put him in a van, took him to gate 4, and let him go on his own. Florida law required that the officers release him to either his parents or another responsible adult. After releasing Andrew at gate 4, Andrew and his friend asked the officer there if he could cross back through the fair to get to the main gate so that he could get a ride back home with his friend's mom who dropped him off. The officer refused him and told him if he tried to enter the fair again, he'd arrest Andrew. Witnesses testified that officer told Andrew that if he wanted to get to the main gate, he'd have to cross I-4. At some point in time, Andrew declined a ride from his football coach because he felt he needed to meet the friend's mom who dropped him off. Andrew made a number of calls after being dropped off at the gate, but he didn't call his parents because he was worried he'd get in trouble. Andrew crossed I-4, but for some reason, he decided he needed to go back. He was hit and killed while trying to cross back. (Is it really unforeseeable that a 14 year old placed in this sort of situation might panic and make bad decisions?) Was Andrew negligent? Yes. But Andrew was 14 years old. The jury found him 10% negligent. Were the officers negligent? Hell to the yes. And they're grown adults who are supposed to know the law, put him in the situation that got him killed, and according to witness testimony, put him in that spot wrongfully (because he wasn't involved in the criminal behavior). It's quite easy for me to understand why the jury decided the cops were far more at fault than the teenager who died here. And I still don't have all the facts.
Me, too. What's very revealing is how some immediately blamed the parents and had no interest in the complete picture.
All spot on. And also doesn’t capture how terribly the Florida State Fairgrounds are situated. If you know the geography, you realize how foreseeable this was. And on the same day the Elijah McClain corrected autopsy is released in Colorado
Some version of Fair Day or Student Day has existed in connection with the Florida State Fair since I was a kid and since the Florida State Fair was just across the river from downtown where much of the UT campus is now. It used to be the same day as the Monday Gasparilla Parade that would dump into the State Fair. You got in free if you marched in the parade. There was usually another student day as well. If you got money for Christmas you were told to not spend it and save it so you'd have it for Fair Day in February. The Sheriff's Office conduct care was abhorrent. Edited to add. No 14-year-old would go to the Fair with your parents. You would never be able to show your face again. You always went with groups of friends dropped off by one parent. In the days before cell phones, you had to coordinate time and place for pickup or try to make sure you waited for the pay phone. That's how things happened as far back as when I was a kid.
Except this shit just happened because the police detained a kid who allegedly hadn't committed any crimes, did not follow Florida law with regard to notifying his parents and only releasing him to his parents or a responsible adult, booted him out of the park at a gate nowhere near where he was supposed to get picked up, refused to allow him to go through the fair to get to where he was going, and then allegedly told him that he could choose between getting arrested if he tried to cut through the park or crossing the interstate to get back to where he was meeting his ride. He died crossing that interstate. I'm not sure how you can think that the police weren't negligent here.
Parents arguing child was left alone, when he was there alone….. But Once the Police had them, you call parents. 99 students, what a pain in the freaking arse, why no one wants to deal with juvies. Think if the police had just said leave and walked them to the entrance, it might have been different. But in essence, they were “arrested” and moved for processing. Fights at fairs has been going on for ever.
I agree but unfortunately our "justice" system offers too many opportunities to make money for various parties. With that said, given the facts reported by GL, the cops certainly contributed to the kids death. I can't imagine a situation where once a minor is detained, in custody or simply just in the presence of an authority be it fire, police ems, etc that we would leave them next to an interstate. Putting aside the issue that the kid was reportedly not apart of the altercations that initiated the police contact, their duty is to contact a responsible adult in that scenario. In Volusia county for example protocol would have us contact a parent, adult sibling or other acceptable guardian at a minimum before releasing a minor. Common sense says I wouldn't release an unsupervised minor at a mall let alone next to an interstate. And none of that deals with the issue of refusing them entrance or proximity to their place of refuge, the fair grounds, for reasons that may or may not have been justified to begin with. If that many kids were detained then I feel for the cops because it's a messy situation but if a one size fits all answer was used to deal with the behavior then its their responsibility to make sure everyone is accounted for. These are the rules for those of us in public safety.
