Disagree, when you're referring to 18-21 yr olds at a football game. Kids do and say stupid things. Sometimes we adults do also. I'm not excusing the behavior, but agree with murph - discipline, but don't kick them out.
Get a grip. Someone came up with a moniker for the game and the media took off with it. No catholic should feel shame for a clever name given to a football game played 35 years ago. Who cares?
Likely futile, but one try The use of the word “convicts” in that football rivalry was already controversial in Miami; now it has created controversy in San Diego. Referring to Lincoln football players — most of whom are Black — as convicts offended Lincoln Coach David Dunn. “All we want is to be treated fair and right, but it’s an uphill battle,” Dunn said in an interview. “We are not gang members, thugs and convicts. My kids are the members of the Lincoln High football team, a team that has posted a 3.0 grade point average each of the last 10 years.” This is not the first time Lincoln students have been subjected to racism around sporting events. In fall 2019, Lincoln students, including its cheerleaders, were subjected to racial slurs at a football game in Orange County with San Clemente High. “This is nonsense,” Dunn said of the Cathedral Catholic photos. “Why can’t we be viewed as a high school program? We fight this stigma based on our skin color and the area in which we grew up.” Cathedral Catholic apologizes for football players' racist photos aimed at Lincoln High
I have to agree. The reason that it's treated differently with Jewish people is because of the history of treating Jews as a race/ethnic group and the persecution that went with that. If somebody wants to mock Judaism the religion, I don't much care.
Well that sucks, never had that experience at a college game, but that is exactly the reason we gave up season tickets to NFL games
Good for them but they should try to penalize identifiable individuals that seem to do something like a lead the chant or particularly target other individuals. You have to send a very very strong message. Sometimes it's impossible within the law of crowds. I don't know whether it is here. But they should put an effort into trying. I know it's greatly out of style, but I would even consider some sensitivity training as to the impact of those type of acts and the history of discrimination against Mormon, some of which is hardly historical and very recent
Opinion | Mormons have to stop being so nice In an era of high-minded inclusivity, it’s worth pausing to wonder how a crowd of people — strangers even — could feel comfortable chanting “F--- the Mormons” in unison, again and again, over the course of a three-hour sporting event. The fact that such a circumstance has occurred not once but twice at different Pac-12 college football stadiums in recent years raises yet another question: Why isn’t more being done to stop it? On Saturday, a college football fan, who has been identified only as Aubrey, traveled from the East Coast to Eugene, Oregon, to watch her alma mater, Brigham Young University, face off against the Oregon Ducks. BYU lost, 41-20, but it wasn’t the scoreboard that soured Aubrey’s experience. During the game, she said, the crowd nearby began chanting “F--- the Mormons.” Over and over.
Mr. Coppins is insightful and wise, as usual. But it's the age-old dilemma, the Christian paradox, Hamlet's to be or not to be dilemma the Guns of Brixton. I really admired the way the LDS Church handled "Book of Mormon" play. Parenthetically, and I don't say this to be pandering, I did not find that play that amusing. despite expecting to. I obviously wasn't offended but I didn't even find that funny. Let's put that aside. That's a matter of aesthetic taste. I love the fact that the LDS Church, instead of trying to block it or criticize it, tried to travel on it as an evangelization opportunity. I've never seen whether that was effective or not but I certainly played well with me. Especially for me, as a Catholic, with William Donohue and others trying to block and suppress any work of culture they see as remotely critical and haranguing the creators. I've never thought that was a good look. But at least from my outside perspective, the dignified and high minded approach increases my admiration for the "true Christianity" approach, for lack of a better term But it does feel like this approach, however faithfully correct it is, invites more than it should. The chanting was not media- it was a crude expression of hate, and must have felt threatening. I still suspect it was just young testosterone, but enough is enough. This needs to stop
And here I was thinking ND hate was from them being overrated every season, getting an inordinate amount of media attention, clogging up bowl and now playoff slots, and fans who forget it's not the 1980s. Don't think anyone cares they're a catholic school.
While there was definite catholic hate 50 years ago, it is hard to make that case now. Look at the president and the Supreme Court. As to Notre Dame, I’ve never liked them, primarily due to the media bias and being perpetually overrated. I’ve figured that part of that could be a pro notre dame bias among catholic poll voters (although I have no specific evidence to quantify or directly support that). It has nothing to do with hating Catholics. I married a catholic. As to fans chanting anti Mormon stuff, it is a double standard and that shouldn’t happen, but I don’t know if it is true Morman hate or a way to make fun of your opponent, in this case in a very inappropriate way. We have been trained not to throw out Jewish slurs, but Mormans seem different enough it never dawns on them how inappropriate it is.
I just saw this and I should clarify my point. I don't believe Catholics in general are subject to prejudice and society. You can make the opposite argument. Catholics have, to my shame, serve part of the shock troops of the advance towards authoritarianism, drawing on Catholic doctrines. Let's not forget that it was not until Vatican too in the mid-60s that the church especially recognize the right to freedom of conscience and religion. Before that it was tought (still technically is) that Americanism was a heresy in permitting freedom of religion. I would submit that a lot of the mindset towards repression of minorities that you see in the mindset of those like Alito and Leonard Leo come from Opus Dei. The days of excluding Catholics as inebriated, overly fecund Italians and Irish are over. To quote TNC, those minorities are no longer viewed as a separate race; they have allowed to become white, culturally. I was talking about the very specific phenomenon of not understanding or condemning the fact that so many Catholics are taught culturally to have Notre Dame as their favorite or second favorite team. Books have been written about it. It is that support, which is a vestige of the northeastern ethnic enclaves, when Notre Dame was the representation in college football for those teams, that give Notre Dame it's popularity and TV contracts, ratings, consideration for bowls etc. And that's what gets the pushback as somehow being illicit, without realizing its origins in historic oppression, just like many people don't understand the historical origins of the fact that Notre Dame plays Navy every year, which is actually quite honorable, but which is branded as schedule padding. I agree that Mormons, perhaps the most American of major faiths, should be appreciated rather than degraded. There's all kinds of thought processes as to why the latter has occurred. It's beyond the scope of this thread, but would start with discussions of the Burned-Over District and reception to those faiths generally, which is focused on the one that has been the most successful and has more history to pick at. But it's unambiguously morally wrong
As to the history of Catholics culturally being taught to fawn over Notre Dame (which I think has diminished to a great degree) it isn’t nefarious, I just don’t like it, so I don’t like the team. But it is just college rivalry stuff. I don’t have anything against Notre Dame per se but it is home to some pretty radical and backward catholic morality. Mormanism has always been a bit of an enigma. I greatly respect many of the aspects of how they live their lives, they value health, family, hard work, community. I worked with a few Mormans back in the day of a company that had a morman president. Unlike most MBAs that came in from fancy schools and wanted glamorous finance jobs and were butt hurt when they found out it wasn’t glamorous (including me) a few of the Mormans came in, took jobs in operations and got their hands dirty - and I ended up training a few of them in operational finance and they were hard working and hungry to learn. On the flip side the religion has a pretty sordid history including polygamy, and has some really strange beliefs. Recently watched Under a banner from heaven, and for all the positive attributes it appears there can be an oppressive culture and it definitely isn’t a walk in the park for women, any of which who may aspire to something other than serving her husband and raising a family.
Keep in mind that Under the Banner of Heaven is telling the story of someone that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints excommunicated because he was so far out there. Most of what you see in that show (or read in the book), isn't about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, but about a kook who was raised in that church and declared himself a prophet and convinced others to leave that church and follow him.
