Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,469
    1,129
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
  2. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,547
    1,985
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    It’s a good metaphor, bringing up inflated estimates of the Iraqi Army’s capabilities going into DESERT STORM. Outside the scope of this thread, but believe it or not there were actually very good reasons that we assessed his armed forces as highly as we did. Those assessments are roundly mocked today, but based on the data we had available at the time up until their performance in the field starting in January 1991, we would probably assess the same today.

    Again just trivia, but starting in 1986 after a series of defeats by the Iranians (the war was roughly five years deep at that point) Saddam allowed a series of military reforms that vastly improved performance in the field. Because Iraq was a totalitarian society, to prevent coups army formations were not permitted to coordinate with adjacent units or with air support. Saddam allowed that change and allowed Republican Guard units to be integrated into combat operations as opposed to sitting behind the regular units to keep them from retreating. For the first time, promotion and command assignments were based on merit instead of party membership, who your cousin was, etc. Long story made short, Saddam’s new reformed army kicked off a devastating offensive against Iran in 1988 that forced them to come to the table and accept a negotiated peace they really didn’t want.

    All of that, we knew in 1990. What we didn’t know until after DESERT STORM was Saddam immediately revoked all of those reforms after the war and purged the ranks of all the officers who had imposed the reforms on him. So we were facing an entirely different army than had beaten Iran in the field in 1988 but didn’t know it.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  3. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

    17,327
    5,607
    3,313
    Apr 3, 2007
    Philadelphia
    Yes, US estimates for NATO casualties against the ferocious Republican Gard divisions were alarming.

    That is until one US armored unit destroyed the core elements of the entire, (fearsome) "Hammarabi" division with their Soviet T72s in what - 10 minutes? Lmao
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2022
  4. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,469
    1,129
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
  5. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    30,567
    11,786
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    Erdogan going hard at Putin demanding that Russia return all lands seized from Ukraine, including Crimea, be returned to Ukraine

    Erdogan: Russia should return the Occupied Lands to Ukraine, Putin wants an End to the War - Novinite.com - Sofia News Agency

    Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has demanded that Russia return the occupied territories to Ukraine seized after the February 24 invasion.

    The leader, who is seen as a mediator in the war and brokered a landmark agreement between Kyiv and Moscow with Ankara and the UN to export Ukrainian grain through the Black Sea, insisted that "if peace is to be established in Ukraine, of course, the return of the attacked territory will be very important".

    According to him, Moscow and Kyiv reached another deal: for the exchange of prisoners, covering about 200 people. However, he did not specify who would be included in it.

    "No, undoubtedly no," Erdogan said when asked by US media PBS whether Russia should be allowed to keep territories captured after the invasion.

    Erdogan, who is trying to maintain relations with both Russia and Ukraine, added that "the territories (including Crimea) will be returned" and that his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin has taken "certain steps" in this direction, no details.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  6. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

    7,390
    740
    558
    Apr 13, 2007
    Russia stock market sharp drop today on concerns Putin is considering full mobilization.


    upload_2022-9-20_17-19-34.png


    “Russian stocks fell Tuesday on signs that President Vladimir Putin could escalate his war on Ukraine after his military suffered a stunning rout earlier this month.

    New legislation in Russia's parliament would heighten punishment for military crimes, such as desertion, damage to military property, and insubordination, raising fears it could lead to a full mobilization later.”




    Russian stocks crash on military mobilization, Ukraine annexation fears
     
  7. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,469
    1,129
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    He’s addressing the nation at something like 8am Moscow time tomorrow.

    He’s expected to announce immediate referendums in parts of Ukraine and he may call for a partial mobilization.

    As in the US, stocks hate uncertainty.
     
  8. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,167
    1,807
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    Tell Vlad to loosen the purse-strings. You are doing very well selling his stories. We are all very entertained by your fairy tales. Thank you for having us on your route. You should not have to pay for your own gas, comrade.
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,167
    1,807
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    You are under deep covers, comrade. No one suspects that you are Russian agent. Keep pretending--it's working. I hear you are almost ready for Order of Lenin Medal.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,469
    1,129
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    This is the most lavish gas allowance I’ve ever gotten. But this company never saw Russian sanctions coming.
     
  11. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,469
    1,129
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    If I’m the comrade you’re the cowboy.
     
  12. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,547
    1,985
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    Oh, dude. If that’s what you’re reading to get your war information, it explains a great deal. That is some world-class, Goebbels-quality propaganda that is totally unsupported by reality. My favorite part is where Odessa is inevitably going to fall to Russia. I don’t think even Putin believes that to be the case at this point. But, hey, let’s get that general mobilization going and speed along to the point of Putin’s untimely death. We are all ready for it.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,547
    1,985
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    Weird move for a nation that is “winning.” Would you care to change your BS narrative now, or do we need to get a few more Russian catastrophic defeats deeper?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,469
    1,129
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    Who’s your guy ? Petraeus ? Hodges ? ROTFLMAO
     
  15. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,469
    1,129
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    Not at all. Putin is said to be cautious and overly concerned with legal framework. SMO constrains Russia to fight with a small contingent and ceding authority to Ukrainian separatists.

    Russians read the same news we see. They see Western countries regarding them as refuse. They know that weapons the West sends kill their countrymen.

    They interpret SMO as Slow Moving Operation. They want to go faster and harder.

    Couple this with fighting the largest army in Europe - and with a seemingly endless supply of weapons to the West ... taking the gloves off will end the war much sooner.

    Absorbing areas whose civilians are being shelled by Ukrainians makes those areas Russia and empowers Putin to trade his hammer for a sledgehammer.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  16. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,469
    1,129
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    Austrian colonel explains how Ukraine hung itself out to dry on it’s recent counter-offensives ...

     
  17. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,547
    1,985
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    I don’t think anyone here questions that you are rolling around on the floor and/or laughing your ass off. I would say “poor wishes” for the next phase of your operation, but your hapless army does not seem to need them.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

    14,990
    13,156
    1,853
    Apr 8, 2007
    Odessa's fall is so imminent that they have started removing sandbags from around some of their buildings.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,469
    1,129
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    People keep assigning timelines, for Russia, that Russia has never disclosed. It all plays into the comfort narrative of evil but bumbling Russians.
     
  20. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,469
    1,129
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    Brian Berletic is a former US Marines. He uses Ukrainian maps exclusively and draws from Pentagon briefings and other Western sources ...