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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The latest in Germany's energy crisis heading into the winter: people are stealing firewood and creating fake websites to sell (non-existent) firewood.

    In other European nations, people in England are abandoning pets they can't afford, and people in Poland are preparing to burn trash this winter.

    Coal stoves and wood thieves: Europe braces for winter without Russian gas

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2022
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  2. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Europe is well ahead in their gas storage goals to prevent shutdowns. The hysteria isn't matching the reality

    How much of Europe’s gas storage is filled

    In addition they are studying energy company excise taxes to cut the bills.

    EU expects to raise €140bn from windfall tax on energy firms

    That $140b euro tax windfall will go towards energy tax rebates for consumers
     
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  3. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    “The war in Ukraine is not about pushing the Russians out and security the Donbas and Crimea for Ukraine. It is a war to create the conditions that will keep the U.S. and British defense industries in business for years to come. A cynical, blood thirsty policy founded on corruption. That is what NATO has become.” Larry C. Johnson, veteran of the CIA and the US State Department’s Counter-Terrorism Unit
     
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  4. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    Interesting read and more than I can post due to paragraph limits but it doesn't bode well for the EU as a whole. Ukraine is in the worst position of all EU members.
    How Many Days of Gas Consumption Are In Europe’s Storage Tanks?
    Storage levels and storage capacity vary greatly in the EU. The tanks in Poland and Portugal are already close to 100% full. However, even the full tanks in Poland and Portugal are not enough to get through the whole winter. They hold enough gas for 79 days of consumption and 24 days respectively. That means without new supplies during the winter they would run out of gas by January 18 and November 24 respectively if all gas supplies were cut off from the current levels of gas stored.

    Indeed, this is the case for all the countries of Europe; most countries’ storage doesn’t hold enough gas to last the whole winter. The exceptions are the Slovak Republic and Austria, where their tanks do hold enough gas to get to the end of the heating season if full. Everyone else starts running out of gas as soon as October (assuming gas withdrawals start on October 1, but a mild winter means drawdowns can start as late as the start of November), although some survive until February. Czechia is in the third best position, as its tanks can last to April 5 if full.
    .........
    Germany remains the most exposed, as it is almost entirely dependent on Russian gas imports. Despite having by far the largest storage tanks in Europe, its demand for gas is equally large and its tanks only hold 108 days of consumption – full tanks would run dry on February 16 and they are currently only 60% full, which would be emptied on December 8 if Russia turned off the gas tomorrow.

    The EU as a whole is in the same position with an average storage capacity of 98 days of consumption, so full tanks run dry on February 6, but as the tanks for the whole of the EU are also 60% full, if the gas were turned off tomorrow Europe would run out of gas on November 28 (assuming an October 1 start to winter).

    As far as excise taxes go and the EU clawing back profits from oil companies two issues come to mind. One it dampens exploration and potential funding for projects currently under way. Two Given the population of the EU $340 billion is a drop in the bucket. This will still require individual nations to implement relief of their own accord.
    Countries in the EU by population (2022)
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2022
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  5. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    “Arguably, the nuttiest neoconservative idea – among a long list of nutty ideas – has been to destabilize nuclear-armed Russia by weakening its economy, isolating it from Europe, pushing NATO up to its borders, demonizing its leadership, and sponsoring anti-government political activists inside Russia to promote “regime change.”

    The Existential Madness of Putin-Bashing
     
  6. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    You do realize that the article is from 2016? One really irony and perhaps Putin's greatest miscalculation if his goal was to limit the expansion of NATO was providing an incentive of Sweden and Finland both of which had a long history of neutrality to become members of the alliance. Although Parry was a well respected journalist (he passed away almost five years ago) his implicit suggestion that appeasing Putin after Russia annexed Crimea and part of the Donbas was the correct policy would further encouraged Putin's goal of reconstituting the Soviet Union, not that the original relatively mild sanctions really discouraged him anyway considering Russia's February invasion of Ukraine.
     
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  7. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Irony ? How about prescient ?
     
  8. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    (shrugs) I’m more of a destination than a journey guy on this one. As long as that end state of Russia being emasculated and back inside of its own borders occurs, then I really don’t care if the defense industry profits in the mean time. So … next point?
     
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  9. G8trGr8t

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    Without any new supplies...but new supplies arrive every day so everything after that is meaningless. New lng receiving capacity and new pipelines are aiding in more supply coming, not less.
     
  10. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Hilarious. You do know that for this alleged "policy" to work, it requires Russia to initiate the combat, don't you? Who is more "blood thirsty", the country that goes around initiating warfare (and torture, and massacres) with their neighbors, or the ones that go around preparing to defend themselves? Or are you going to say that Ukraine getting weapons to defend themselves justifies the Russian invasion?

    So, if your neighbor buys a gun to defend his home with (because he thinks the neighborhood has become a little scary), is your automatic response to break down his door and start shooting at him with your gun, because his ownership of a weapon is an existential threat to you? Also, if he decides to join a homeowner's association, do you invade and destroy?

    I find it very hard to trust a former CIA man when he tells other countries not to be prepared to defend themselves. The CIA has done more damage to more countries than most people can imagine (including handing out weapons like candy at Halloween). Our little 40+ year dispute with Iran? The CIA created that.

    And he was definitely incorrect with his "years to come" statement. Ukraine should be able to mop the floor with Russia by next summer. This investment in weapons for Ukraine will be relatively short-lived. It won't go on for a decade like Afghanistan did.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2022
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  11. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Prescient like a moron. Putin is playing whack-a-mole with his neighbors convincing them to not join NATO. While he's whacking Ukraine, Finland and Sweden are signing up, and others are thinking about it.
     
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  12. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Well, there is a correlation between weapons industry thriving and people dying, just as there is a correlation between US foreign policy and people dying.
     
  13. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    You’ve got to get over your reflexive Bad Man Putin. He’s clearly explained why he considers Ukraine an existential threat. That said, since it has clearly been the West’s plan to weaken Russia, what was Putin supposed to do ? Refrain from any actions for fear that the West would redouble its efforts to weaken Russia ?
     
  14. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    For once, you and I are in complete agreement. These days, there is a strong correlation between defense industry output and dead, wounded, missing, captured, and demoralized Russian. I support that correlation entirely.

    But to your actual point, I will be fascinated to discuss the U.S. role in contributing to worldwide violence once the nation responsible for the arguably largest breach of the peace since 1939 is safely inside its own January 2014 borders. See you then.
     
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  15. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    You mean, because of imaginary Nazis? Is that the threat?

    The West was doing business with Russia before they invaded Ukraine. We were not treating Russia like Iran and North Korea, as terrorist states that could not be trusted under any circumstances. How is doing business with Russia a plan to weaken Russia? Why would we want to expend any effort to weaken Russia even if we wanted to? Russia does a fantastic job of weakening itself. Communist countries and dictatorships feel a need to micro-manage their economy and do certain things (control the press, limit freedoms, spy on their citizens, kill oligarches, etc.) so the powerful can remain in power. This generally leads to a weaker country over the long term, as people react to their freedoms being taken away.

    There was no West plan to weaken Russia until Russia started invading neighbors. The U.S. helped rebuild Russia after it collapsed in the early 90's (we didn't do a very good job, but we could have easily destroyed Russia and rebuilt it, and we did not).
     
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  16. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Of course, if you really want to be in business selling weapons long-term to people who want to kill each other, then you pick two opponents that are closely matched and completely dedicated to the annihilation of the other. Like the Irish Catholics and Protestants in the 1970's, and the Israelis and Palestinians in the 1980's. Russia has a poor excuse for an army, and many of their troops are not all that committed to fighting Ukraine (many are more dedicated to looting Ukraine than fighting it).
     
  17. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Sure, we can discuss it. I reject the premises.
     
  18. duggers_dad

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    In Latvia, Russians are the new blacks. They go to the back of bus ...

    upload_2022-9-18_15-41-18.jpeg
     
  19. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Back in July Ukraine rejected a Russian offer to return the bodies of dead soldiers > so Russians buried their own enemies in individual graves, cross and all > Ukrainians dug it up and are now crying massacre ...

    No wonder the Russian troops are demoralized. They’re having to do all the work.
     
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  20. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    Sure supplies will arrive and how much of that do you think will go to Ukraine? The supplies that are arriving now are not enough as energy prices skyrocket. You now have protests occurring on regular basis. You now have major corporations closing down operations or partially shutting down due to energy prices. You have local business shutting down due to gas prices. The situation is getting worse not better.

    Think about his for a minute. The most heavily sanctioned nation on the planet is North Korea ever since I can remember. Yet the North Koreans still manage to maintain an army and build nukes. What makes you think sanctioning Russian oil is going to bring Russia to their knees? Russia is a producing nation unlike the US which has turned to a service oriented nation relying on imports and services from others.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2022