if kamala will not go to the border, the border comes to kamala

100% agree with Arizona’s take from Page 3:

“Know what is a true easy solution? Allow the immigrants to sign up with a guest worker visa. Allow employers to to post jobs where they need help and are struggling to find workers. Then allow supply of labor to meet demand.

And while agriculture is one of the areas with labor issues, there are others. Construction, for one, and nursing home/elderly care, as another.”

The fact that BOTH Pubs and Dems have had control enough to enact this type of legislation shows that the politicians in general have no interest in solving the issue but prefer to continue the tension back and forth further dividing the USA

 

It's never been a difficult solution, at all. People won't come here if they can't work illegally. E-verify. Punish the business severely if it hires illegals. Basically, problem solved.

 

TPTB have always wanted the cheap labor underclass.

 

They would still come in a lot of cases to avoid violence and persecution in their home country. Just as every non indigenous person and non descendent of slaves had ancestors who made this exact same choice. That basically means every person of European descent, but particularly those whose roots go to the original colonies. But in addition to descendants of the early colonizers (of which one side of my family can be traced) it also includes later arrivals: Cubans, Central Americans, Asians, Irish, Italians, African refugees (non slave descendants) and every other group whose family history made this trek to America at one point or another. Is there a single “indigenous” North American posting on this forum?

This is not an easy journey. It’s actually crazy to think about what they go through. For the people doing it and willing to come here to be migrant workers or work entry level jobs I say we should be welcoming. It’s especially ludicrous to be anti-immigrant given the current labor shortages. That tells me it must not be so much about protecting jobs or boosting the economy, to be anti-immigrant is actually to hold back the economy. So that leaves the other obvious choice. It’s about race.

 

Gonna give you a hint..two million people have come across the border so far this year. It is an absolute cluster that has completely been mishandled by Joe Biden.

That is reality without the fiction.

 

Why do you only care about the southern border? The people I know who are undocumented flew here

 

No argument from me there. I was just going over the most basic solution to the illegal worker/immigration problem. A comprehensive immigration reform plan needs to include increased border security (or measures) followed by amnesty for those that are here. My point being, I've really never felt it was thay difficult of a problem to solve. Neither party has no desire to actually solve it.

 

Sounds like these people need to be given green cards so they can get to work, which for the vast majority of them is all they want. The economy also needs workers. Seems to me 2+2=4 here. We need a robust guest worker program so these people can work legally and be above board. I guarantee you if you do this alignment between market demand for labor and green cards the “undocumented” will be very low in numbers, and those people left will be the criminals who aren’t the ones just looking for opportunity, those leftovers would be Trumps “drug dealers and rapists”. This would make law enforcements job so much easier.

So the holdup is….what exactly? Seems to me the only holdup is a segment of our population isn’t interested in doing what’s right and obvious, and instead actually likes seeing things like kids in cages or non-productive stunts such as this. Instead of embracing marked based capitalism for immigration (actual conservatism) the Republican Party has embraced kookie conspiracy theories like “the Great Replacement Theory”, and the solutions they want for that are not conservative at all. It’s anti-freedom., anti-market, and just plain evil. Unfortunately this dehumanization has been the course of evil right wing movements throughout history, and America is not immune. I expect it to get a whole lot worse before it gets better, hopefully the evil is limited to “stunts” but as we saw with Trumps actions and some of the rhetoric, the bounds aren’t what we might have thought.

 

So you are basically saying if someone doesn’t agree with your point of view on this… they must be racist. Just go ahead and close the door to any more discussion… you are right and everyone else is a racists..smh.

 

To be clear, I agreed with your premise on how to enforce illegal immigration, or we can call it exploitation of immigrant labor.

I’ve always thought the individuals should be left alone unless they commit some serious crime that puts them in law enforcement custody, but there should be “raids” on large employers of illegals or the human traffickers that might be preying on them. This is a mostly a matter of resource allocation, but it’s also philosophically similar to how I think the federal govt should operate. At this point the “illegal” labor is almost a necessity in some industries, such as construction and ag. So I’m no longer sure if “raids” are a good idea. Unless there is proof they are being treated as slaves or paying them illegal wages. This is why I’ve definitely bought into the concept of a massive “guest worker” program. There will still be crooks, but you can get a huge amount of it above board, have them paying taxes, etc. At least then you shrink the pool of illegal operators for law enforcement to consider.

I was just pointing out, no matter what we do it’s not likely to be a deterrent vs. what they are fleeing from.

The current situation is also very different from what it might have been 20 or even 10 years ago. The economy is starving for workers. These are some good workers some want turned away… because reasons.

 

I don't think its inaccurate to say there are certainly racial elements involved for some people. People have admitted to it on this board talking about the need for a homogenous society to properly function.

I'm not painting everyone with that brush. Personally, I'm for immigration reform because, frankly, whats the point of having a country if you don't control its borders to the advantage of that country's citizens.

 

Thank Donald Trump's policies for that and the Republican "judges" preventing Biden from changing those disastrous policies.

 

And I don’t disagree with you. But read Blings last paragraph. There isn’t much room there for discussion.
Almost everyone agrees we need immigration reform… everyone but the ruling class.
The devils in the details. Politicians don’t want reform. Dems and republicans have had plenty of chances. Dems control congress and the White House and have done … nothing. Republicans won’t do anything either. It’s red meat for both sides.

 

Go ahead and articulate the alternative reasoning.

What non racist based reasoning is there for people to confuse legal asylum seekers from Venezuela with “illegal immigrants”? What makes them “illegal” besides the color of their skin? Some of these were families with children.

I will grant you there are some absurdities and obviously not all takes on this are race based. Republicans simultaneously pander to Cuban immigrants in FL while demonizing Venezuelans and Central Americans. How? Why? The political calculus of that never made much sense to me, other than I guess Republicans are comfortable with the idea Cuban immigrants are drawing a racial distinction because they are somehow an in-group and these others an “out-group”. There is no tangible or rational reason I can see for this to be the case. The situation in their home countries and their reasoning for wanting to flee here are identical, as is the difficulty of their journeys to get here.

 

A combination of reliance on right-wing media and ignorance about how our immigration system works.

 

There is some racial component for some people.. no doubt. Others may look at it and realize that to asylum one must do it in the first safe country they come to. Venezuela is a long ways a way and those migrants went through a lot of other “safe” countries. Cubans don’t. We are the first place they cross into. Asylum.
But the real issue is how you frame the argument. You left little to no room for discussion.
Almost every person I know.. from left or right, of any background or skin tone.. agree that immigration reform is needed and to redefined.

 

I’m shocked you have time to post. I thought you were still looking for any shred of evidence of that racists at BYU you were so sure was there…

 

I practically wrote an essay, if you choose to focus on one line that’s on you.

My point was the pro-growth and pro-economy angle is actually to give out millions of green cards. That might not always be the case, but right now it 100% is, and the expectation going forward is also that there will be millions of unfilled jobs in manufacturing, construction, service sectors for the next decade.

Again, if there are potentially millions willing to come and take those jobs why are we closing the door? If it’s not race, what is it? When this country was “great” it literally never did that. It welcomed immigrants including those arriving with absolutely nothing. This country’s entire history is people arriving with nothing and building something. What changed?

 

Nope. I'll be spending most of the day working, though. You have anything to contribute to this thread outside of whining about others' tone, right before you throw around ad hominems?

 

The concept of "first country of asylum" is not universal and is instead based only on signed agreements rather than any other sort of more generalized law. Essentially, only when certain bilateral or multilateral agreements are signed, does the principle apply. We have such an agreement with Canada, and the EU has signed an agreement internally. But it is not a universal rule. No such agreement exists with Central American countries or Mexico with the US (although Trump discussed such an agreement, none was signed). Therefore, these people did not violate any such rule.

Requiring Migrants to Apply for Asylum in the First Country They Enter May Not Resolve the Central American Crisis | Bipartisan Policy Center