It's 96% Caucasian. Yeah, they're a real melting pot. Sounds like a great place for AA's from USA to escape to for the fair and equitable life not offered here. https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-rele...rgently-confront-anti-black-racism-un-experts
So, individuals, and their stories, tell us "nothing" about social mobility. Huh. And all I did was reply with "bootstrapping hokum and anecdotes". You know, I may not agree with things people say here but I do try hard to read their comments, think them through and make reasonable responses, if I feel strongly enough about the subject. You seem to have a wonderful way of providing an interesting stance on many subjects, and I always look forward to your take on things. I do, however, wish you could stop with some of the smartass personal comments.
Look, multiple people provided at least some hard evidence that America is far from being the most socially mobile place on earth, you may dispute the methods or whatever, but it is at least some kind of measurement. In almost every society on earth you can find a story of someone overcoming the odds to succeed or failing despite all the opportunities in the world, I don't think it tells you much about the bigger picture or the mobility in that society. And when those anecdotes are offered as a refutation of hard data, it becomes more like a deflection. Its like if you presented a claim that car accidents were decreasing with stats to back it up and I responded with a story about how I knew 4 people that were in car accidents recently. Ultimately, I just think you are trying to convince yourself with those stories. Certainly arent convincing anyone else that doesnt already think like you do.
So is there a reason that racial differences rather than cultural differences are the important metric here? Because they clearly aren't a homogenous culture, unless you think all white people are the same culturally.
Cop out answer. I am asking you. From this response, are you basically saying that they are more economically mobile as a country because the US has lots of different races and racism whereas Switzerland doesn't have as many different races but racism and that leads to more mobility, relatively?
If 5% have zero mobility, but the other 95% do, that makes for a pretty good stat. But you're probably right. Nordic countries are the bastion of freedom and opportunity for minorities.
I presented data as well, just not from a research institute or university. My data is that I see people of all gender/racial groups succeeding in this country. I see women CEO's, I see black doctors, I see gay business owners, etc., etc.. I see people that, years ago, probably would not have been in the same life situations they find themselves in today. That is a fact, there is hard evidence to prove that. So, I guess because we're 27th, or whatever we are on the social mobility scale, many of these folks are just outliers. I disagree. I think it is extremely difficult to compare a country like ours, with 330+ million people, to most of the small European countries, with their much smaller populations, that came in ahead of us in the SM study. And to go back to the original question, these comments all came about based on my question to you about naming a better country to live in. You, and some of the other posters, may believe there are plenty of other places to live that provide more opportunity, a more equitable form of government, etc., etc. I do not. Finally, I never post here to try and convince people of anything. I try to provide information that may give someone another way of looking at things, simply based on my experiences. I try not to get personal or make nasty comments, as I do not see the value in it.
Well, first, the post that you disliked is not about a nordic country. Second, yes, nordic countries are bastions of freedom in general (they often have some of the highest marks on just about any freedom index that you can invent) and do show strong evidence of opportunity. So what is your hypothesis that you are proposing here then? That non-white people can't be economically mobile or that majority white societies prevent them from being economically mobile?
Your unrecorded, unverified and haphazard personal observations aren't "data" ffs. This is the posting of someone desperately clinging to a belief, its almost religious in nature.
The issue is that there are inherent bias in the selection of your anecdotes, which is why your data isn't coming from a research institute or university. It is no different than somebody telling you that you shouldn't play the lottery because it has a negative NPV and then responding "But I've seen people have a positive NPV with it. A guy down the street won the lottery." Sure, that may be true, but it isn't really indicative of the overall effect, which is what those institutes or universities would do. If you seek out confirmatory anecdotes, you will find them. But it doesn't really dispute the overall effect.
I keep thinking surely there is some right-wing thinktank that put out some kind of mobility rankings where America is #1 in everything, but also I keep thinking that lots of people don't even need evidence to be convinced, so maybe they never felt like they needed to bother with it.
Only someone’s values prevent them from opportunity and mobility. That’s why you see all kinds of people doing well in America. The people who fail or who are stuck, may be happy where they are or lack the proper values of successful people.
