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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I can see where one would include the PI as being at the zenith of a U.S. overseas empire, yes.
     
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  2. phatGator

    phatGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I remember being taught in K-12 that what made the US great is we never had colonies and never started a war. Funny how that was considered so important to distinguish us from the other empires. We definitely have an empire, whether one considers it benevolent or malevolent or both.
     
  3. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Russia is a not a danger to NATO in a conventional war. It can inflict great damage if they willing to suffer millions of losses. But, the danger is not just conventional.
     
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  4. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Senior Commander of Putin's Elite Special Forces Killed in Ukraine: Report (msn.com)

    Lieutenant Colonel Nikolay Gorban, 36, head of the 4th Department of the Special Operations Department of Russia's Federal Security Service, was reportedly killed "somewhere in Ukraine on August 2," InformNapalm reporter Anton Pavlushko said in a Sunday Facebook post.

    The circumstances surrounding the death of Gorban, who reportedly fought in Syria and possessed two Medals of Courage, were not mentioned. Gorban was reportedly among Russian President Vladimir Putin's highest-ranking officials, according to Pavlushko.
    ....................
    "In the course of carrying out combat missions, he proved himself to be a courageous and decisive officer...He was proud of his service in the Russian FSB," the message read.

    Gorban's death would reportedly be the 99th of a Russian colonel or lieutenant colonel during the Russia-Ukraine war. The 98th such death, according to The Mirror, was Colonel Vasily Kleshchenko, an army aviation commander who headed the 344th combat use and retraining center for elite helicopter pilots and snipers.
     
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  5. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Well, there’s history and there’s heritage. Every organization has both but naturally emphasizes the latter over the former. I have no problem teaching young children a history that places their country in the best light, but I would say starting in high school it’s time to start teaching the whole truth, warts and all.

    If you were taught that America “never had colonies,” then we were playing games with words about what a “colony” was to make a distinction between, say, the Philippines under U.S. versus Spanish administration. Sure, there were such distinctions, but at the end of the day both were overseas possessions captured by force and ruled from afar.

    If you were taught that “America never started war,” then I have to wonder who started the War of 1812? We would have to do some real spin there, such as, “Well, the British provoked it, so they started it.” Then I would have to fairly ask how many wars we didn’t necessarily pull the first trigger on but certainly had a hand in provoking. A list comes to mind, including even our most moral pursuits.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
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  6. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    It may be a sin, but every notable Russian KIA in Ukraine fills my dark, cynical heart with a little sunshine.
     
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  7. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Goggle- 2022

    Military bases worldwide

    #1 US - 750 to 800 depending on definition in 80 countries
    #2 UK - 145
    Russia - 36
    China - 5

    The US has 3X as many bases as every country in the world combined.


    Uhhh exactly WHO is the Imperialist nation here?
    Hey lets be realists.
     
  8. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    I don't quite share your sympathies. While I am cheered by the news Ukranians are successfully defending there territory and inflecting heavy damage on the Russians, I realize that Putin and his cronies are the ones responsible, not those peasant boys asked to be grist for the meat grinder to satisfy terrible polices by terrible people.

    I would absolutely agree with you if an early, violent, death were to decend on those responsible for this insanity.

    The Russian youth have always been considered nothing more than chattel for the pathetic power mongers of Russia, dating FAR FAR back into slavic and Russian history.

    its a shame..............
     
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  9. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    As Himars become more and more available it seems evident, if Western Inteligence Reports are accurate, that the course of the war is changing and rapidly. It is reported that a summer Ukranian offensive may be in the works. Costs are mounting, some reports suggest as many as 80,000 Rusky casulties already.

    Putin has got himself in a real mess now.
     
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  10. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Great book I recommend:

     
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  11. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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  12. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    You have to capture all of the key words, in this case “notable.” In this case, we were discussing this particular former jerkoff, not some nameless, faceless young Russian conscript.

    Senior Commander of Putin's Elite Special Forces Killed in Ukraine: Report
     
  13. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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    My friend in Odessa reports Ukrainian missile strikes against a Russian air base in Crimea today. I'm sure Putin will retialiate against civilian targets in Ukraine.
     
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  14. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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  15. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Well, if we’re being “realists” on this topic, I have to ask, “How many of those bases are not at the damn-near pleading invitation of the host nation?” and “In how many cases, should we try to close the base, would the outcry of the host nation exceed the outcry of our own people?” I am only aware of one overseas base where the host-nation government (which we don’t fully recognize) would kick us out if it could.
     
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  16. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    And your point is undeniable VALID. I agree the majority of those bases would not exist without the US being INVITED.

    Nor am I trying to paint a picture that we are bad guys akin to British Imperialists of the 18th and 19th centuries.

    Neverthless U.S. power projection is an omnipresent specter in the world today, our Political Leadership has endorsed and expanded this role since WW2.

    I know you are of a military background. I enjoy your perspectives and appreciate them.

    But in an ever changing (I won't say "evolving" how about "de-volving" world), the U.S. as world policeman comes at great cost and great risk.

    I am NOT a fool - I have some "small" concept of the horrid political, ideological, cultural and religous hostilities that confront the human race, around the globe.

    Stalin / Soviet expansion into Western Europe - They were and are PIGS.

    Mao and the Chinese Communist take over in China and expansion of coummunism in S.E. asia - PIGS!

    Islamic Fundamentlsts in the Middle East - PIGS

    S American Socialists / totalitarian dictators - PIGS

    I GET IT. Well not as in blood sacrifice, but I do have some level of comprehension. My best friends dad was killed in the Nam in 67..............

    And don't think for a SECOND, I think, that without U.S. power projection, the world would be a better palce.....IT WOULDN'T, I know that.

    But the cost is high. The Berlin Wall, Korea, Vietnam, 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, and now, more indirectly Ukraine and the countless other interneicine conflicts. invariably, despite the best of intentions, mistakes are made.

    So, our 750 - 800 bases, when weighed against the alternatives that would be in place, are well worth it.

    I did not agree with much the wannabe Emperor and selfish lout Trump was and is, or what he had to say about much of anything, and I think foreign policy was way over his head and out of his leauge, however I do think he was correct that Industrialized Western, Capatalist societies must reorganize their common values, and most participate more in the defense of those values, if they wish to maintain hegemony in the World Order.

    The burden of world "COP" is falling too heavily on the USA. Fortunately England has been making some significant moves with the build up of it's navy, France seems to be coming around and Germany is faced with the bruitish specter of Russian domination.We jsut don't want to get the German "right wing" too stirred up, if you know what I mean.

    Putin is not exactly "Wrong" about the realities of the actual power structure of the "World Order", and that order is of course Western Industrialized, Capatalism.

    But Russia is a piss ant when it comes to economic strength and
    the only real card they hold is an aging Nuclear Arsenal and a shit load of Geography.

    Israel is by far the dominant military power in the Middle East

    S and Central America dont even have significant cards to play in the game, the personal greed and corruption of their leaders, combined with the Drug cartels, keep them essentially a passing thought in world politics.

    BUT CHINA - CHINA, is the rising colossus that represents the most significant threat to the current world order - THAT and of course Climate Change, which depending on the severity, could change ALL of the existing paradigms.

    OK sorry for such a long post.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
  17. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    If the EU and the south Pacific could field their own defenses that could be changed. It would save us a ton of $$ too.

    Which countries control the resources and infrastructure of other countries via debt obligations? China is taking over without ever firing a shot or building a base.

    How do you define imperialism?
     
  18. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Those that choose to impose their way of life, economics, culture and religon upon others. through an assortment of means.
     
  19. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    big munitions explosion at airbase in Crimea

    Large explosions rock Russian military air base in Crimea | AP News
    KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Powerful explosions rocked a Russian air base in Crimea and sent towering clouds of smoke over the landscape Tuesday in what may mark an escalation of the war in Ukraine. At least one person was killed and several others were wounded, authorities said.

    Russia’s Defense Ministry denied the Saki base on the Black Sea had been shelled and said instead that munitions had blown up there. But Ukrainian social networks were abuzz with speculation that it was hit by Ukrainian-fired long-range missiles.

    Videos posted on social networks showed sunbathers on nearby beaches fleeing as huge flames and pillars of smoke rose over the horizon from multiple points, accompanied by loud booms. Crimea Today News said on Telegram that witnesses reported fire on a runway and damage to nearby homes as a result of what it said were dozens of blasts.

    Russia’s state news agency Tass quoted an unidentified ministry source as saying the explosions’ primary cause appeared to be a “violation of fire safety requirements.” The ministry said no warplanes were damaged.
     
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  20. rajinGator

    rajinGator Moderator VIP Member

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    Dying to know if the longer range 300 km ATACMS were deployed in this attack. Now that would be interesting.