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Discussion in 'Awesome Recruiting' started by tommyvee, Jan 6, 2022.

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  1. g8tr82

    g8tr82 GC Legend

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  2. deathroll

    deathroll GC Hall of Fame

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    And I repeat:

    March 5, 2004
    Orlando Sentinel
    Mike Bianchi

    It was Christmastime, 1993, when former Florida State football player Michael Gibson raped her.

    He broke into her apartment, shot her twice, leaving two gaping holes in her chest. Then, as she lay there bleeding and crying, he continued with the sexual assault. And then he left her for dead.

    Except before he left the scene, this deranged monster of a man took one final liberty:

    Michael Gibson stole the Christmas presents on his way out.

    "How low can you get?" says John Witherspoon, the husband of the young woman who was raped that day. "How could Bobby Bowden ever write a letter in that man's behalf, to try and help that man someday get out of prison?"

    Good question and one that hasn't been asked nearly enough. Since when did Bobby Bowden become a spokesperson for rape and rapists?

    Bowden chose to speak out the other day in support of embattled Colorado Coach Gary Barnett and, in the process, questioned the validity of recent rape allegations against Colorado football players. Bowden, who seems suddenly to have become an expert on rape crisis counseling, questioned why the alleged victims took so long to report crimes that happened a few years ago.

    "I did not understand how a young lady can say she was abused, or whatever it was, two years later," Bowden told reporters in South Carolina. "At the time, why don't you go report it? It seems like you ought to report it right [away]. So it makes me say, 'Well, did it really happen like that? I don't know.' "

    I wonder if Bobby also questions the integrity of the boys who were abused by Catholic priests and were too ashamed and embarrassed to come forward until years later? Or is it only boys who tell the truth?

    "I wish I could say that I'm surprised by Bobby Bowden's comments," says Witherspoon, an attorney in South Carolina. "Doesn't he always take the side of the athlete no matter what? It sure seems that way."

    Bowden, of course, knows nothing about the specifics in Colorado. He doesn't know the alleged victims. He doesn't know the players involved. All he seems to know is that he's a football coach, and football coaches defend their brethren and their boys -- defend them all the way to the penitentiary if necessary.

    If anybody has a right to feel betrayed by Bowden's public stance on rape, it is Witherspoon and his wife. She's a former Florida State student who was the victim of the horrifying sexual assault at the hands of Gibson, a former FSU running back who was on the team for less than a season. Gibson also was convicted on three other rape charges -- one in which he held a gun on a man and made him watch while he sexually assaulted his girlfriend. Gibson received six life sentences: four for rape, one for armed burglary and one for attempted felony murder.

    "What we have here is a serial rapist who has raped, we know of, four women," Tallahassee state attorney Willie Meggs said in court. "Brutalized them with firearms, physical force, deadly weapons. I want to be sure he never gets out."

    This serial rapist is the man for whom Bowden wrote a self-described "letter of reference" a few months ago before a hearing in which Gibson's lawyers tried to get the life sentences overturned so that Gibson someday would be released from prison. Gibson is the adopted son of former FSU player Ernie Sims Jr. and Alice Sims. Their son, Ernie Sims III, is a sophomore linebacker for the Seminoles who was rated by some recruiting analysts as the nation's No. 1 prep player coming out of high school.

    In the reference letter to Circuit Judge Kathleen Dekker, Bowden wrote, "I can only account for what I know about him when I was recruiting him out of [Tallahassee's] North Florida Christian High School and for the time he was on our football team at Florida State University." Bowden went on to write that Gibson was "no problem" when he suited up for the Seminoles and that he has a "loving, caring family." At the end, Bowden concluded: "Thank you for reading my letter and may God direct you in your decision."

    The letter was written on Florida State stationery and signed "Coach Bowden."

    When the letter became public through court records, Witherspoon said his wife was "crushed and crestfallen." This is a woman who loved Florida State, graduated from the school, and was a huge football fan whom friends say "revered Coach Bowden."

    "When she first found out about Bobby Bowden's letter, she couldn't even watch Florida State games on TV anymore," Witherspoon said. "How can you support a serial rapist? How could any coach speak up on behalf of this animal?"

    At the hearing in October, Witherspoon's wife had to get up and relive that horrible day once again. She's 34 now, an attorney and a mother of two. But, still, 11 years later, she can't forget. How could she?

    "He shot me first, and then he raped me," she testified. "There's not a day that goes by that I don't think about it. The thought of him getting out of prison terrifies me."

    Judge Dekker agreed. She ruled that Gibson must spend the rest of his life in jail. "You have committed unspeakable crimes," she told him. "Monstrous crimes."

    It has been said that Bobby Bowden sees the good in people, almost to a fault. But despite this penchant for blind loyalty, how could you ever see any good in any man who has shot and then raped a woman?

    After the Gibson hearing, Linda Miklowitz, the president of Florida's branch of the National Organization for Women, wrote a letter of protest about Bowden to Florida State President T.K. Wetherell. In the letter, obtained by the Sentinel on Thursday, Miklowitz lashed out: "Until FSU starts taking seriously sexual violence against women by athletes, the school will continue to send the despicable message to hundreds of young men that rape is okay. Censuring Bowden would be a good first indication of change of course."

    Miklowitz's suggestion obviously never was heeded because this week Bobby Bowden, it seems, once again turned into Bobby Knight -- except Bowden's graduation rate isn't nearly as high. It was Knight who once advised victims that, "if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it." Bowden's comments and actions, although not as callous, are just as insensitive.

    Wetherell came to Bowden's defense Thursday in an e-mailed statement in which he wrote: "I have known Coach Bowden for years. I am sure he never meant to suggest in any way that he condones any type of abusive behavior." What's even more troubling is that this isn't really just about Bowden; it's about the culture and the code of the locker room. In a sports world filled with attractive recruiting hostesses and under-the-table sex favors, women are treated as accessories and enticements.

    Boys will be boys. Girls will be toys.

    "It seems to me that these coaches help create this atmosphere of entitlement," Witherspoon says. "The athletes are led to believe that they are special; that the system owes them something. They think they can take anything they want, and that includes women. It's like, 'If she doesn't want me, I'm just going to take her.' "

    This is not to say Bowden or any coach condones rape, but -- at the same time -- shouldn't they go out of their way to condemn it? Rape is a serious problem in college, and one study found that one-third of campus rapes are perpetrated by athletes.

    Instead of always defending the players, just once wouldn't you like to hear a coach say, "How's the victim doing? Is she OK? What can we do to help her?"

    And instead of writing a letter of reference on behalf of the rapist, just once wouldn't you like the coach to write a letter of concern to the woman who was raped?

    Bobby Bowden defends his insensitive comments about rape by railing against "political correctness." But this isn't about political correctness; it's about correctness -- period. It's about doing and saying the right things and sending the right message.

    You don't question the honesty of an alleged rape victim you've never met.

    And you don't write letters on behalf of serial rapists.

    Especially if you sign your letters "Coach Bowden." That title means a lot to young men.



    My bad. It’s that reading comprehension thing again. Guess this article somehow describes, in your words, a “f'n dream world and can only judge people by their affiliation with a criminal justice system that is largely designed to destroy an entire segment of our society by keeping them impoverished and enslaved” rather than, in my words, a f’n evil rapist, attempted murderer and a hypocritical head coach and supposed leader of men defending him.

    As for Bobby’s coaching prowess/legacy:

     
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  3. wci347

    wci347 GC Hall of Fame

    And while UF and FSU struggle to become relevant, Georgia steadily steals players out of Florida. 389 from FL played in Division 1. UF, FSU, and UM are NOT getting their share of the cream of the crop? Why? Because no one has been contending for a championship. The last FSU championship was 2013. That previous year Florida went 11-2, and was ranked 10th in the preseason rankings. Florida had a 3rd ranked class in 2013 and FSU had an 11th ranked class. Since when have both been so high and both underperformed?
     
  4. scooterp

    scooterp GC Hall of Fame

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    This guy needs his own thread. Someone just give it to him.
     
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  5. wci347

    wci347 GC Hall of Fame

    He wrote a letter saying what the person was like as a player on his team and perhaps because he was the son of another star player. He did not condone the act. He did not make any disparaging comments about the victim. He asked that the judge allow God to guide her decision, and left it at that.

    How this negates him from being one of the greatest coaches of all time is beyond me. Sounds like you are grabbing for straws. I hope they are not plastic.
     
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  6. lizardbreath

    lizardbreath GC Hall of Fame

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    Would that be the "give him enough thread and he'll hang himself" thread?
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
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  7. Wanne15

    Wanne15 GC Hall of Fame

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    Unless you would like to share your favorite Triscuit combination
     
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  8. Wanne15

    Wanne15 GC Hall of Fame

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    He wrote a letter of support.
     
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  9. wci347

    wci347 GC Hall of Fame

    You bring up lopsided in state rivalries like Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. That has never been a legitimate rivalry. Louisiana has no rivalry in the state of Louisiana. Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend? Bama has the best coach in the history of college football and dominates the state of Alabama and the country. But out of their last 21 contests, Auburn has won 10 of them. One of the reasons why Bama recruits so highly is because of Auburn. LSU recruits high because there is no one else in the state. That IS NOT THE CASE HERE IN FLORIDA! We have two other schools with MULTIPLE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPs. They are NEVER GOING TO GO AWAY. They have strong followings and strong alumni. What rivalry does OSU have in Ohio. Your examples as is the case with others who have made them are nonsensical. You can't compare UF and FSU to OSU and Ohio University. That's absurd. And FSU will never sink to the depths of becoming an Ohio University sports wise. It is unrealistic and quite frankly, childish to think so.

    So what is the best hope if you know your adversary and rival who has bested you almost as many times as you have bested them? What do you do when you compete with that school for a gold mine of talent that if it goes to Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, and Notre Dame, we all lose in the state. You create a cartel. An oligopoly which is what we had in the 90s when we were the BIG THREE! Even though Miami was not as successful. They rode on the backs of UF and FSU as we did on theirs in the 80s. You snatch up the key players in the state and divide them evenly. Yes, there will be years when FSU beats us and where Miami loses to us, but we will all be contenders, and what's more, schools like Georgia, Notre Dame, Alabama, and OSU will suffer, because they will have to divide upon the remaining talent in the state after the big three get theirs.

    It is unrealistic to think that we are going to recruit the top players by ourselves and stockpile them in a transfer portal NIL age I'd rather see players go to Miami and FSU rather than OSU and Notre Dame. We don't even play those schools. If I am recruiting a player who attends a HS where a 5 star player went to FSU the year before, I can say, "you will get to play against that guy and show the world that you are better than he is" . IF that player goes to OSU, the 5 star in the next graduating class might commit to Michigan just to compete with that guy or go to another SEC school that is recruiting multiple top players out of the state of Florida. God knows we weren't and neither was FSU or Miami for a stretch.

    What is it about our 3 championships and the success of FSU's recruiting those previous years that you don't understand. There is a direct relationship between successful in state recruiting by the three programs and one or more of those three programs competing for a national championship.
     
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  10. scooterp

    scooterp GC Hall of Fame

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    It’s like a debate in Too Hot. It just never ends. Just tell him he’s right …and maybe we can this back on topic.
     
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  11. Skink

    Skink GC Hall of Fame

    I was waiting for this cat to go political. Look at how he addresses people and tries the insulting or condescending route when debating anyone. TH is teeming with libs like this guy. Good place to stay away from
     
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  12. ncg8or

    ncg8or All American

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    Here’s Bowden’s legacy.

    5F020590-214A-4FF8-853A-503B339A7961.jpeg
     
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  13. devincdoss

    devincdoss Senior

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    In recruiting news, Kamran James sets his commitment date for Sunday, time tbd according to his dad. Have to think we’re the favorite here
     
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  14. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 GC Hall of Fame

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    Now lets put it all together and what do we get? ;):rolleyes:
     
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  15. xenythx

    xenythx GC Hall of Fame

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    Seems like Billy is setting up another big commitment momentum weekend with possibly Collins on Saturday and James on Sunday.
     
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  16. 31g8r

    31g8r GC Hall of Fame

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    It appears you grasp of history is limited to Wikipedia or the semi’s media guide.
    BB’s first season was 1976 the next 11 years they averaged 8-3 and final AP rank of 13 missing the final rankings 5 times. Hardly a dominating performance portending the success they would soon achieve. As stated Bobby did a good job of playing anyone to raise the profile of the girl’s school football program.
    The next 5 seasons they averaged almost 11-1 final AP rank 3. This drastic increase is directly related to the probation handed down to UF the players recruited in 84 were seniors in 1988 and the train was rolling in more places than just on the field.

    I digress, you have presented nothing to dispute the historical circumstances leading to the rise of one of the most corrupt football factory programs in the history of the sport. Bobby recognizing the need for conference affiliation to instill some bona fides for his accomplishments went conference shopping and landed in the Acc with the 9 dwarfs. He dominated losing only 2 conference games in 9 seasons and winning 2 NC. Clearly he had a competitive advantage playing in the acc against the weak sisters.

    The ethically and morally bankrupt coach purposefully shunned the invite to join the SEC believing that it would prove more difficult to compete, rightfully so.

    To argue UF competing against a strong fsu in recruiting is laughable. Any competitive advantage UF can gain is good for us. A weak team out west is good for us to clean up with recruits able to gain admission to UF and our subsequent rise in the SEC will be enough secure commitments from top shelf players. Provided BN is the guy for the job.

    School is over
     
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  17. eastowest

    eastowest GC Hall of Fame

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    2 CBs today for James to UF.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
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  18. fox

    fox GC Hall of Fame

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    On another forum with mustard and ketchup colors.
     
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  19. gatorpjb

    gatorpjb All American

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    Bowden’s top 3 finish’s in his first 10 years were 1977, 1979, and 1980.
    What was going on at UF those years. 1977 Florida finished 6-4-1, their coach was Doug Dickey who would lose his job in 1978 after going 4-7 the next year. 1979 was Charlie Pell’s first year… you remember we were 0-10-1 that year, FSU was 11-1… Miami had a sterling 5-6 record, the fact that their two main rivals were down didn’t seem to hurt FSU that year. In 1980 Pell pull us up to 8-4 (which tied an NCAA record at the time) FSU was 10-2… Miami was a respectable 9-3 and beat both UF and FSU.
    Bowden came to FSU in 1976, we were placed on probation in 1984… 8 years not 10 (I understand that’s quibbling) but the highly publicized investigation started in 1982 and was a daily headline in both the St. Pete and Miami papers… you think that helped our recruiting and didn’t benefit FSU and Miami ?
    The fact is both FSU and Miami made recruiting hay in that era. Pell had assembled enough talent for us to have really good teams in 1984 and 1985 (both of which would have been top ten teams within your 10 year time frame had they not been on probation) . In 1986 and 1987 we started to decline because of the NCAA penalties. You, yourself admit FSU’s ascension really began in 1987… totally inline with UF’s downward trend.
    What you really have demonstrated is that the state of Florida has enough talent for the three traditionally best schools to be excellent at the same time, if they can keep the out of state schools out. (Unlikely)
    You have not proven that it is necessary for all, or even two of those schools to be at the top for the other one or two to be on top. If that were true it would be true across the board… someone else has point out Alabama’s success vis-a-vis Auburn, you can throw Georgia vs Georgia Tech and Clemson compared to South Carolina into the mix, along with several others.
    Bobby Bowden was an excellent coach who certainly benefited from our problems with the NCAA, and who was smart enough to assemble a great staff, and keep them together for many years.
    FSU record from 1987-2000 under Bowden was undeniably as good as anyone. He started losing coaches and FSU went into gradual decline… until 2012 when Fisher came in, when it started declining again in 2017 and Fisher left.
    I didn’t know Bobby Bowden, I suspect you didn’t either, for that reason I can’t comment on his character. He most certainly was flawed, all of us are, but I’ll defer to a higher authority than me to determine the extent.
    I have met Urban Meyer on several occasions, he seemed to me to be a complete ass, but again some consider me to be one, so I’ll pass on definitive judgment since I’m decidedly not all knowing.
     
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  20. GatorGhost

    GatorGhost GC Hall of Fame

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    Hopefully, but I get the feeling it's more to not feel the pain of losing Baxter and Collins. But hey, that means at least 1 of the 3, which was already expected, and if we get a second one, bonus!
     
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