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Archaeologists are now in the transgender firing line

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by oragator1, Jul 24, 2022.

  1. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    lol, so I’m a conservative now? Maybe you aren’t as fastidious on my posts as I thought you were, I criticize the right far more than I do the left here. My criticisms for the left are almost always their tactics and not their goals. It’s the opposite generally for the right.
    And that archaeology stuff was already all over conservative media (Drudge posted it), not to mention my reach here is about 30 people. So I don’t think I am tipping the scales, but hey maybe I’m selling myself short.
     
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  2. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    No, I dont think its the tactics you have a problem with in this case. Because you say you have a problem with the tactics, but then follow that with a demand people be "called out" by politicians for their ideas. Presumably for political expediency? Brownie points with reactionaries? I don't know, and it doesn't make much sense to call attention to an 'issue' that is niche even for conservatives obsessed with what happens on college campuses. Seems like you want politicians to do the thing you don't like the activists doing, calling people out. To "cancel" these trouble makers daring to challenge the status quo so to speak. You are perpetuating the very thing you claim to dislike.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2022
  3. Orange_and_Bluke

    Orange_and_Bluke Premium Member

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    How dare you show balanced criticism. You should listen to wgb. He’ll teach you how to question conservatives and be a good libbie.
     
  4. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Not a liberal, but thanks though, you should both listen to me.
     
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  5. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    I have said repeatedly that racism and genderi discrimination should not be tolerated. Those goals are 100 percent valid. Choosing to fight that fight the way and the places the dems have is the issue. Claiming that trying to identify race in archaeology when it has real goals is akin to white supremacy or eugenics isn’t a valid argument - the two have nothing to do with one another. Claiming that white supremacy is bad is. That ain’t exactly going out on some massive limb. Pointing out that telling people they didn’t earn what they have because of white privilege is a dumb argument that only alienates, even if the goal of equality is valid. Making your first act (or one of) as president to sign the bill around transgenderism in high school Athletics when the country isn’t remotely there yet only deepens divides. Even if wanting to see transgender folks treated with respect and equality is 100% good.
    But anyone that pushes back on that stuff gets reflexively challenged as you are here, and that’s the point. The dems have no clue how to pick their battles, whether it be in government or otherwise.
    But that’s all for me today, I have paid writing to do.
     
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  6. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    What do we know about their tactics? I tried to examine the data points supporting the original story. I saw a screenshot of a single tweet that looked like part of the thread that I could not locate on Twitter. I'm sure it actually existed but I suspect the Tweeter deleted or took their account private after the harassment. I didn't really get the benefit of her thoughts.

    I saw a piece that was misdescribed. Reading the abstract, it sounded perfectly reasonable. And I saw quotes from two researchers, one of which had her own data suppressed, which generally disagreed with an approach that they didn't actually describe.

    At least for me, when I address pieces like this, I like to dig into the links and try to examine what's really going on. I did not find that possible with the links in the OP. I suppose I could've found out more with independent research but I didn't want to spend that much time
     
  7. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    I was more or less just going off what the OP wrote, and his own conclusion that it represented some failure to curbstomp "crazies" on behalf of the Democratic party. Its a piece in a conservative publication geared to propagandize what they think are "radical" academics, which almost certainly misrepresents and sensationalizes what the actual debate is. It makes me wonder how the debate against scientific racism and the idea of "primitive" culture would have been perceived in the 1930s-40s had their been a vast right-wing media apparatus. Woke-nutcase Melville Herskovits is at it again folks!
     
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  8. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    I agree. Without going back to look at everything again, the abstract of the second piece sounded in terms of police forensics and understanding how to read the evidence of the victim discovered much later in hopes of solving the crime. It seemed like it advocated a higher level of awareness of trans life for use in investigations, but otherwise was not much into the social engineering part of it, just trying to give the police greater cultural understanding to better interpret available evidence.

    The first tweet in the thread did sound like a typical more fired up younger person, in a tone like what I would've used 40 years ago if Twitter existed then (thank God it did not).

    Then there were the two quotes they didn't describe exactly what they were in opposition to. It seemed like a classic intra-academic debate of the type that occurs in almost every discipline in different degrees, that was elevated into a polemic fomentation by an obscure source.

    What I especially took exception to was the claim as to who was been the aggressor overall. Regardless of what happens in this one small corner of otherwise obscure academia, it's plain that in society as a whole, those that favor transgender rights are the ones under attack
     
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  9. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

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    I'm not comparing it to eugenics. I'm saying the methods are literally rooted in what became the eugenics movement. That's also what the experts in the article I posted including the full discussion pointed out. They also pointed out that because of that, there's still some questionable science being used. That is an important point.
     
  10. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

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    Isn't it the President's job to lead, particularly on issues of equality? Why shouldn't he use his power to advance equality, regardless of whether the country is "there" or not?
     
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  11. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Related - it was never only about competition. They are suing to try to avoid serving trans kids free lunch they would other wise qualify for. Read the comments

     
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  12. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    Ken Paxton is among the worst human beings on the planet.
     
  13. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    True, but he's one of 20 here. The issue is larger than him
     
  14. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    While this may be yet another example of fringe professors doing dumb things, this has to be one of the more asinine positions I’ve seen anybody take. It is completely moronic.
     
  15. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    Oh I know that.
     
  16. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    It's not just professors. One of the primary characters in the story is a master degree student.
     
  17. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    Yeah it is hard to try to filter when you see “look dumb person does dump thing”, or in this case substitute highly educated for dumb. But still.
     
  18. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 GC Hall of Fame

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    What' the beef? Are the transgender people expecting archeologists to find trannies from the past?
     
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  19. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    If we are going to make informed opinions about the issue, it's best that we know where it is coming from. This one may be primarily from professors of anthropology/archaeology, but it's not entirely clear from the info we have. It is clear, however, that the call has not come exclusively from profs.