Roe v Wade Overturned

Good. Premeditated murder is a capital crime. That is the way it should be.

 

So now we are going to execute the women and the doctors who performed the abortions? Public hangings Gilead style or will they be shot? Will the families get a bill for the cost of the bullet?

 

Whatever the other death row murderers get in North Carolina that will be fine.

 

Fetuses Can Be ‘People’ in Georgia Now. Here’s What It Means for the Future of Abortion.


But the legal repercussions of this ban will ripple far beyond abortion. Legally recognizing fetuses as “people” would likely dramatically rewrite enormous swaths of U.S. law.

“Fetal personhood is kind of an infinitely complicated topic with potentially infinite unintended consequences, because once you recognize a fetus as a person, they could have rights in all kinds of contexts,” Mary Ziegler, a professor at University of California, Davis, School of Law who studies the legal history of reproduction, told VICE News shortly after the Georgia ban was first passed in 2019. (Until Roe’s fall, it was blocked by a court challenge.) “So you would have to work out what it meant for everything from inheritance law to tax law to civil liabilities rules to criminal law.”

Tax law will certainly be impacted by the Georgia ban, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Technically, abortion is outlawed once a fetal “heartbeat” can be heard, normally at around six weeks of pregnancy. (Despite the law declaring this sound a “heartbeat,” the embryo does not have a developed heart at that stage of pregnancy.) At that point, people can claim their fetus on their state income taxes as a dependent, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported.

People can also file for child support at the point in pregnancy, while state officials must include the fetus in population determinations.

 

Why so eager to punish?

 

I will absolutely vote straight ticket democrats even though there is a lot that I don’t like about Democrats. Between Trump and abortion related issues the Republican Party is disgusting and has zero redeeming qualities.

 

Years ago I’d bring these types of hypotheticals when discussing abortion and the response from pro lifers was I was just being ridiculous and exaggerating the consequences. Now these crazy scenarios are actually coming to the forefront.

 

self righteous blood lust, a fanatic

 

In the days of Noah, the earth was filled with violence. This is what moved God to flood the earth. After God drowned the violent inhabitants of the earth, He revealed to Noah that from now on a reckoning is required when there is bloodshed:

Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed,
for God made man in his own image.​

This command was never revoked. It still stands even to this day. And, yes, just about every culture has a flood story, and that bolsters the evidence this was not a myth. It happened. Even all of the earliest societies we know of studying history from a secular non-Christian vantage point practiced the death penalty further bolstering the evidence those societies can be traced back to Noah. Idolaters took a historical event, and they changed the story to fit their idol worship because of their apostacy.

You know something interesting about redemptive history...it seems as if mass infanticide endorsed by the state has been a leading indicator of the biggest moments in redemptive history. There was mass infanticide slaughter instigated by Pharoah, head of the state, in the years leading up to the Exodus story. And God orchestrated the events of history such that the head of state who instigated that infanticide died a violent death. He was drowned in a chariot in the Red Sea.

Herod the Great also instigated a mass infanticide slaughter in the decades before Christ would launch His ministry on earth and go to the cross as the once for all atoning sacrifice for sins. Herod died when he was struck by an angel, and he was eaten by worms. Think about that. Post Pentecost, a ruler of a non-theocratic state was struck down by an angel because he did not obey God.

What is the next big event we know of in redemptive history? It is Christ's return to judge the world. And what is happening right now? We are killing more babies than Pharoah or Herod the Great ever did. We are filling the earth with violence making the pre-flood world a place we might find strangely familiar. And what did Jesus say? The last days will be like the days of Noah.

There are many other stories of peoples who practiced state sanctioned infanticide. Carthage, the Mayans, the Aztecs, the Incans, the American Indians...and the providence of history worked against them because they practiced violence. War and pestilence destroyed those societies. Historically, violent peoples have provoked God. When we tolerate violence, it is not consistent with God's character to sit and do nothing forever. Eventually God moves against violent rulers and violent societies.

This is why we should practice the death penalty: It is what God has prescribed for all people for all time to deal with the shedding of innocent blood.

 

Justice. The purpose of the state is the administration of person to person justice. A powerful person paying another powerful person to kill a powerless person is about as clear cut of a case there is.

 

You know nothing of justice. Imposing your brand of Christofascism on the rest of us and using the power of government to harm those who refuse to accede to your belief system isn't justice. It's tyranny.

 

Yes. This country would be far better off hanging the Christofascists from every tree than a single woman or doctor involved with a single abortion.

 

I have rarely given the 'dislike' rating in the years it has been available, but I think the time has come for it to be judiciously dispensed when appropriate. From this point on if I read a post I think out of bounds or overly offensive I am going to lay it on.

Please remember people, how you address other people tells the readers of this forum more about yourself than it does of the person to whom your insult is directed.

It's been said more than once on this forum - Projection is Confession - Cultivate self awareness, please.

Edit - I'm pleased to see the post I was about to 'award' a dislike has been edited to eliminate the worst of the offense. Thank you.

 

I don't want anybody hanging. Plank is welcome to his ideology. I simply don't want him and the people who think like him to harm people who disagree.

 

" Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone. "

Jesus once encountered a capital offense and execution in progress. We know what He did in that situation.

Jesus would beg the girl to save her baby at the front door of the clinic and greet her with loving arms at the back door as she left.

He would exhort her to change her ways an not do it again. He wouldn't give her the needle.

When Peter harmed a man for trying to harm Jesus. Jesus helped the man and rebuked Peter.

Hanging on the cross Jesus said to forgive because they don't know what they are doing.

When did Jesus ever tell his followers to enact revenge for sin or wrong?

Did he ever?

I am saddened by this punitive approach by Jesus' followers. I think they have forgotten what we all deserved.

Grace is not to be a rare exception.
Grace....Period.

Calling out the tragedy and horror that is the millions of extinguished human lights is a necessary thing. We are called by Christ to seek justice for the least of these.

We are not called to enact the revenge saved for God almighty Himself.

Every human being is worthy of God's punishment as NONE of us can live up to His standard.

Jesus came to provide a bridge of Grace to God, not be the wedge used by Christians to make ourselves above the sinners we think our worse than us.

 

I think this needs to be responded to. What makes the capital punishment of murder unique is it is the only capital crime given pre-Sinai. The commandment given to Noah is not something that we can say is part of the old covenant or the Sinaitic covenant. There is some truth to what you are saying, the old covenant is superseded by the new covenant. We understand the penal codes of that covenant belong to those to whom they were given. And Jesus during his ministry showed us the old covenant was being superseded by a new covenant. What is interesting about adultery, now that you bring it up, is Paul speaks of adultery in 1 Corinthians 5. The apostle Paul still understood that the church had a responsibility to "remove the evil one from among you." That is a phrase from the Torah that was often connected to capital crimes. The evil one was removed from the nation of Israel by way of the death penalty. The way Paul applied it in 1 Corinthians 5 was excommunication. Adulterers were removed from the covenant community by excommunication from the fellowship in the New Testament church. They were given over to the devil for the destruction of the flesh. And later in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Paul lists former homosexuals, people who would have been put to death if they had lived in Israel in the days of Moses, as people who were no longer homosexuals and part of the fellowship in Corinth. Murderers were not listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, however. So, I get what you are saying. There is some truth that there are many instances of capital crimes from Israel's theocracy that are no longer capital crimes in the modern day American civil context.

Nonetheless, you still have to acknowledge Paul's words in Romans 13 that the sword wielding state is a servant of God, and the state does not wield the sword in vain. The sword that is wielded by the state is not simply a decoration that is never removed from its sheath in the new covenant era. I don't see how to interpret your take any other way here. That is the logical conclusion of where your argumentation goes, and that is a crazy misinterpretation and perversion of what the Bible teaches us about the role of the state in the modern context. Grace does not abolish civil justice. They both coexist, and they should not be pitted against one another. A person can be forgiven by God, but still face the consequences of civil justice.

The sword is given by God to the state to be used. And what is it used for? Swords are used to kill evildoers. That is what that symbol means. And why does the state do this? The state does this as a servant of God to avenge sin and carry out God's wrath on earth against wrongdoers. So, I don't think what the apostle Paul teaches in Romans 13 about the role of the state, as a servant of God, in carrying out God's wrath against wrongdoers squares away with what you are saying. You are making arguments here that very clearly contradict what the apostle Paul teaches on this subject. The apostle Paul makes that very clear in Romans 13.

 

They secretly fear God is either made-up or squishy and is not to be relied on, so they got to make their own justice on Earth

 

An appeal to the Torah, but no mention of the Torah's punishment for causing the death of a fetus?

 

Plank, my brother. Romans 13 doesnt justify putting girls to death for abortion.

If anything, I could take it to the other extreme and say that since we are to submit to our government than we should submit to the ungodly laws that are dictated by it.

It is speaking of RIGHTEOUS rulers. Not humanly elected kings. Otherwise why would God demand we submit to it or be judged.

Do you think that God will judge a baker who refuses to bake a cake or do you think he will reward him? I think the potential sacrifice will be rewarded by God, but your interpretation of Romans 13 tells me he will be rightfully judged.

Jesus listed hate as a sin equal with murder.

Jesus had the power to pull the power of heaven down and execute those murdering Him and yet he begged God to FORGIVE the murderous mob.

Are you really under the false impression that our Savior when faced with a murderous, ruthless, barbaric mob that was torturing the life from His veins chose to call on God for their FORGIVENESS and basically proclaimed them innocent based on their ignorance, would want us sticking needles 8nto young woman?

Cmon Plank. You are being deceived. You are making the Redeemer into a condemner.

Let me ask you this. If your daughter got pregnant, scared and foolishly aborted her child do you think Jesus would support the killing of your daughter?

Would you support the "legal" killing of your daughter?

Also as phil says above. Was killing an unborn child considered "murder" under the old law and if not, what part of the new covenant lists it with "murder"?

 

From the Christian Nationalism thread:

"Lol, more fearmongering so liberals can huddle in their houses, chatter their teeth, bite their nails, and worry that the boogie man is coming to get them. Seriously, that is all this is. I've never met a self-described Christian nationalist in my entire life."

same poster. amazing, but true.