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Jan 6 Committee: Engaging Violent Extremists (7/12, 1PM)

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by pkaib01, Jul 11, 2022.

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  1. Tjgators

    Tjgators Premium Member

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    I think we should explore BLM burning down city after city. Let's compare the damage.
     
  2. AndyGator

    AndyGator VIP Member

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    Over zealous protest of perceived injustice versus treasonous violent attempt to overthrow Democracy led by an exiting loser president that has led to the brink of Democracy in America into question.

    Well, that was a short and quick comparison. :rolleyes:
     
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  3. gator10010

    gator10010 VIP Member

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    Quick question, have any of the protesters on January 6th been charged with treason?

    Or are you just trying to carry the emotional drama line for your team?
     
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  4. pkaib01

    pkaib01 GC Hall of Fame

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    No one has been charged with walking their dog off leash, either. Not every event provides an opportunity for a given legal charge. Treason is simply the wrong legal term to use in this context (as of now).

    There is a common misperception between the colloquial and legal definitions of treason.
    Colloquially, treason implies a betrayal of one's country. Legally, it's one of the following acts:
    • levying war against the U.S.
    • aligning with enemies of the U.S.
    • providing assistance or comfort to enemies of the U.S.
    What the Jan 6ers are accused of is sedition.
    • conspiring to take down, overthrow or destroy by force the U.S. government
    • levying war against the U.S. government
    • opposing the authority of the U.S. government by force
    • hindering, delaying or preventing any U.S. law from being carried out
    • taking, seizing or possessing U.S. government property via force
    So it's correct, although muddled, to say someone is treasonous [colloquial] when they commit sedition [legal].

    3 people have plead guilty thus far with seditious conspiracy with a max sentence of 20 years.

    The bullet points above are taken from the following article detailing the difference between sedition and treason (and insurrection).

    What Is Sedition? Comparing It to Treason & Insurrection
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
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  5. pkaib01

    pkaib01 GC Hall of Fame

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    Outside of partisan whataboutism, what would be the benefit of comparing said acts? On what basis would you compare them? Dollars lost? Lives? Damage to democratic institutions? Felony convictions?

    The "burning down cities" hyperbole highlights your lack of sincerity on the matter.
     
  6. gator10010

    gator10010 VIP Member

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    It was a simple question. You still didn't answer it.

    Have any of the protesters on January 6th been charged with treason? Yes or no?
     
  7. pkaib01

    pkaib01 GC Hall of Fame

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    Oh, I thought you were being rhetorical as treason is not a legit charge here. Since it is instead a stupid question, I'll answer it... zero. Zero people are charged with treason. Do you win a point?

    I think everyone involved in the Jan 6 conspiracy is treasonous. A good many should be charged with sedition.
     
  8. pkaib01

    pkaib01 GC Hall of Fame

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    Nobody was also charged with wearing a fake mustache that caused laughter in a church (Ala law).
     
  9. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    They have Been charged with sedition. Treason, as defined in the constitution, requires a declared war. So the crime that most people use the term “treason” to describe is really sedition.
     
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  10. gator10010

    gator10010 VIP Member

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    So by definition the protesters on January 6th were NOT charged with treason, correct?
     
  11. pkaib01

    pkaib01 GC Hall of Fame

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    True. For the reason repeated on the page multiple times. Do you get another point?

    Why this fixation with such a trivial concept? Did someone here actually claim people should be charged with treason? It's bizarre.
     
  12. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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    Some seem to have it in their head that one excuses away the other. They need to get back to us when the statutes actually allow a defense to consist of having to let a defendant off scott free because someone else committed a bad act. Zero logic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
  13. AndyGator

    AndyGator VIP Member

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    Words of gold from the snowflake cult. Thank you for our morning entertainment. ;)
     
  14. gator10010

    gator10010 VIP Member

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    A liberal poster on Too Hot called protesters on January 6th treasonous.

    The fixation is treason is a word with a meaning. It's not my fault if you don't like those meanings or their definitions don't fit your story.

    The fixation was pretty obvious if anyone actually step back and thought for a moment but I realize that is a lot to ask on Too Hot
     
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  15. pkaib01

    pkaib01 GC Hall of Fame

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    I explained to you the very simple difference between the legal term treason and the common adjective 'treasonous'. Here's an example from vocabulary.com:

    "Anything treasonous involves a betrayal, particularly of your country. Your sister might consider it treasonous if you tell your parents she skipped school to go to the beach."

    Should the betrayer in the example above be charged with treason?

    Here is a random politician using the word to mean betrayal and not the legal version. Are you equally upset with his use of the colloquial version?

    The 24 times Trump has accused somebody of "treason"
     
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  16. AndyGator

    AndyGator VIP Member

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    In his defense, he does sort of have a point. Treasonous is relative. If you are pro-Democracy and pro-America, then 1/6 was absolutely treasonous. If you are not pro-Democracy then, well, 1/6 could be considered as non-treasonous.
     
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  17. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    There are often legal definitions of a word and colloquial. For example, the word murder. You can say Tebow and the Gators murdered the Seminoles in Tebow's senior season. But Tim, nor any of his teammates are going to ever face criminal charges for their actions during the game. But in this instance, the legal definition of murder isn't being used. It's colloquial.

    There is a difference between the legal definition and colloquial definition of treason too, as already explained. The legal definition involves war. But that doesn't stop someone using treason in the colloquial manner when someone does something against his country in non war time.

    If you really want to be legally accurate, the Jan 6 protesters are seditionists. In a legal sense, is that really better than treason?
     
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  18. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall VIP Member

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    You are exaggerating “burning down city after city”. Also, it wasn’t BLM, it was opportunistic criminals. Lastly, riots happen from time to time, however, it can’t be equated with an attempted coup d’etat organized and led by an outgoing President. They are two different situations. Physical damage isn’t the main issue with Jan 6th insurrection. It’s a political issue with far larger implications.
     
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  19. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Dying on the hill of "it was only a Seditious Conspiracy" is a choice, I guess.
     
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  20. pkaib01

    pkaib01 GC Hall of Fame

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    This is not the first time he's tried to die on this particular hill while simultaneously slamming "liberals". From May in another thread:

    It just makes me sad.
     
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