Republicans block bill to shield people who travel out of state for abortions

You state “Nazi Germany had no right to kill Jews, and we have no right to kill babies.”

but you haven’t mentioned (or I haven’t seen it) what should be done with the mother? If murder, should she be deemed guilty and face punishment (ie incarceration)?

 

Does God only care about the approx 1 million abortions per year in the United States? He doesn’t care about the 40 million per year world wide? Does God favor Americans more than other lives?

40 million times 30 years is 1.2 billion additional new lives, heavily skewed towards poor countries. That’s 2.4 billion over an average human lifetime. What do you think happens to people if the world wide population increases by over 1-2 billion? Do you think that many more will die of starvation and poverty? Do you think that worldwide resources are exhausted faster? Do you think that many more that don’t die suffer?

You would rather zygotes and fetuses the size of an olive that don’t feel pain and have no cognition be saved but millions more actual real living human beings suffer and die miserable painful deaths?

Do you really think this is what God wants?

BTW you don’t seem to understand the definition of murder.

 

Should that be the threshold for every self defense case? Minimizing total deaths rather than minimizing the death probability of the individual acting in self defense?

So if somebody points a gun at you, and you think there is a 50/50 chance they kill you, you can't kill them because that wouldn't be minimizing total deaths?

 

Every case is different. We have a system in place that requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt. So if it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, then yes a mother or a father could be convicted of murder.

Sometimes mothers are intimidated or forced to get an abortion by another family member or a boyfriend. Sometimes they have been lied to and the wool has been pulled over their eyes regarding the nature of what is being done. So those are factors that would have to be taken under consideration. Nonetheless, once the correct laws are codified to protect life ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law.

 

It's not necessarily murder. Here's my PERIOD!

 

So if a mother has an abortion and it isn’t from coercion, her life isn’t in danger, she wasn’t raped, and the father wanted to keep the baby; and this can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt the mother would be held guilty for murder. And the woman would potentially get double-digit years in prison.

and also, if the mother attempts multiple times to leave the state in pursuit of an abortion, she is caught each time and this can be proven, she could also be guilty of attempting to get an abortion. And to protect the life of the unborn, the mother could be held in state confinement until she gives birth.

 

Other than the actual words of Jesus (such as found in the Jeffersonian Bible), who supposedly was the only person who knew God's will (indeed, he apparently also was God), do you have some written guidebook as the basis for your pronouncements? I'm not interested in the opinions of others in the Bible. They had no more insight into God's will than anyone other than Jesus.

 

I would actually support this legislation. I gave it a quick read and can't see a good reason why not to support it (if you truly believe abortion should be a state issue).

I wonder why Manchin didn't support it.

There is a cynical reason to do this, and that is ensure that people who feel strongly about abortion leave purple and red states, and move to blue states so that they don't have to worry about this sort of thing. I want that to happen anyways, but this is not the right way of going about it. If this was the calculation Republicans made, however, I think they underestimate how many Republican women favor abortion.

 

I hear what you're saying: let each state decide if and when an abortion is legal as long as it protects life. Although I'm pro choice, I can understand that from a constitutional point of view. However, and putting aside your argument's inconsistency, this thread is about state A preventing a woman from traveling to state B with laws different from state A to have an abortion. Do you think state A ought to be allowed to do that?

 

I like your post. It seems to me one thing for a stare to say we are against abortion and won't provide you the means to have one, and quite another to say we will follow you wherever you go and punish you for having one. Among other things, its draconian and unconstitutional.

 

I'd like to know how that law would be enforced. No more pregnant tourists? An ankle cuff that monitors fetal activity 24/7?

If a pregnant woman wants an abortion, she's going to find one. All these prohibitive laws do is make it harder. Look for a thriving black market and an "underground railroad," type deal in the crazy states.

I also predict a real dearth of pregnancies in said states.

 

You could make a similar argument about murder. If you want to do it, then you could find a way to do it. People still do get murdered today, and laws against murder have not totally cleaned up the problem.

The advances in forensic technology that have happened in the past few decades, though, are pretty amazing. If you decide to murder, then you are probably going to be caught. If you took the budget of the US government and put a sizeable amount towards R&D for criminal justice technologies to catch people who do abortions, then you could probably get similar results and do so without breaking any laws.

 

Wouldn't that money be better spent on developing uterine replicator technology so people don't have to get abortions? Why so punitive?

 

I think if we were talking about rape or slavery, then you'd be singing a different tune regarding punitive measures. Why is that? Well, part of loving a victim is seeking justice for the crime committed against them. There is a lovelessness that permeates our culture towards the unborn. People don't seek justice when the unborn are victimized because they don't love them. Many are lovers of self and don't give a thought to the best way to love the unborn.

Your suggestion is a technology that serves who? It serves lovers of self. It does nothing to love unborn people. The best place for a baby to develop is the mother's womb. No question. What needs to happen is a societal acknowledgment that we've become an extremely selfish and self-centered people, and that we need to start loving the unborn and consider them as important as ourselves.

If a black man was killed, then you would be clamoring for justice. If a woman was raped, then you would be clamoring for justice. If a gay or trans person was killed, then you would be clamoring for justice. But when an unborn person is dismembered, burned alive in chemicals, or is killed by some other method we do not clamor for justice. It is wrong, and it shows a cold heart to another human being.

 

You and those like you show cold hearts to victims of rape and incest.

 

Not at all. Like you, I want justice for them, but once you murder someone then you are a murderer. And not just any kind of murderer, but a mother or a father who murdered their own child. I don't want anyone to carry that around with them on their conscience the rest of their lives and ultimately into eternity. It is better to enter heaven having given birth after rape, than it is go to hell having had an abortion after being raped.

When we look back from eternity, we'll realize that much of what was advertised as love in our culture was a bunch of snake oil, crafted by the devil himself, for one purpose to destroy our souls.

I know there are people who post and read this very board who have fallen into the devil's trap, and Jesus can save you from your sins. It is a horrible sin, and I don't believe downplaying how horrible it is is the right thing to do. But Jesus saves horrible people who have done horrible things. There is no sin so great that a man or a woman cannot be saved by Jesus.

 

So if a mother has an abortion and it isn’t from coercion, her life isn’t in danger, she wasn’t raped, and the father wanted to keep it, the mother is guilty of murder and get double-digit years in prison. Correct?

 

Haha. I had the same thought. He just proposed a Death Panel. Conservatives everywhere should have spinning heads.

 

Cold, rationalizing heart.