Berkeley Prof tangles with Sen Hawley, calls him trans phobic

What do you mean by word games and word salad?

 

A trans man can have a baby. Your insistence that said man is actually a woman could be described as bigotry. It's assholery at the very least.

 

Wrong on above. As a society, we differentiate between men and women. Government set aside programs, athletic competition, civil service tests, actuarial insurance tables, insurance coverage, incarceration... to name a few. The question is do we need to differentiate and if so, by what metric. Most would agree that besides set aside , physical diiferences between men and women makes sense to differentiate. obviously now the discussion is how (since the definition of a woman is now in question). i agree with biological sex as the marker.
as an example, i dont think we now need pregnancy coverage for men because a female who transitions to a male gender may be pregnant. they would be covered as a woman, which biologically they still are

 

He said word games. I was pointing out that conservatives arent the ones changing all the word meanings.

 

Good lord. Bigotry is a response. If I denied them anything, thought rights should be relinquished, confronted them etc. That would be bigotry and "assholery".

Voicing my opinion on a message board is simply that and the name calling from the extremists is just an effort to bully into silence.

Many of is can believe a trans man is a woman and still treat them with dignity, respect and equality.

 

This isn't a fair take. What you call a "trans man" is to other people *sex=female; gender identity=male*. Recognizing this should not be considered unethical. It's the "sex=female" aspect of it that most folks consider the defining attribute of "woman." People are up in arms over the lack of acceptance of the hijacking of commonly understood terms. The entire approach is wrong. Instead of a "how about this..." on the part of people seeking to make changes, we get a "you're an (expletive) if you don't see things my way!"

To me it's not even clear whether or not people intend on gender being a separate concept from sex or if they are seeking to replace the concept of sex altogether.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

You said that, by your definition, only women can get pregnant. So what do you call a trans man who gets pregnant?

 

I consider her a woman identifying as a man.
..But i will use the pronouns they wish.

 

Male isn't a gender identity, it is a sex. So a trans man capable of having a baby would be sex=female; gender identity=man.

 

You are literally not doing that in this post...

 

Yes, we have built a culture that views man/woman as a binary. But in reality man/woman is not a binary. There are at least four different ways of defining man/woman (external genitals, internal sex organs, chromosomes, hormones) and they don't always agree with each other. We can recognize that reality, or we can try to force everyone into one of two boxes, but when we ignore reality bad things happen. In this case the bad things are happening to a very small number of people, so we can tell ourselves they don't really matter and move on with our lives.

 

The people I see being dicks about pronouns and recognizing trans as whatever they identify as, have spent years trying "how about this ..." and gotten nowhere with it. Their frustration is understandable. It gives people who disagree with them ammunition and they should probably avoid it, but it is understandable.

 

As @wgbgator pointed out, misgendering has been an insult for eons. If you feel like you're a man, it's demeaning to be called a woman. That's true whether you were born a biological male, or are a trans male.

Hence, calling trans males "women" against their wishes is demeaning; perhaps even moreso than when you do it to a cis person who is generally much more secure in their identity.

It's not exactly a foreign concept, if you just put yourself in their shoes.

 

Yes I am. Its called tolerance. The ability to live peacefully with someone I disagree with.

My belief that she is a woman, doesnt lead to a confrontation.

 

Which words?

 

You referred to a trans man as "her" and then said you would use their preferred pronouns. You can't do something and then declare that you would do the opposite in a hypothetical situation.

 

Can you give an example? Are you just referring to in your circles or do you see something that's been attempted on a broad scale?

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

Ask him. It was his accusation.

 

tilly disagrees with a basic and transparent fact here. Holy self-unawareness.

 

I said I considered it one way, but out of respect I would honor the persons wishes when addressing them. Its not really that hard to understand.