Supreme Court rules for coach whose prayers on football field raised questions about church-state se

Not really an applicable analogy. A more applicable analogy would a situation in which your high school math teacher held a prayer service every morning (observant Jews are required to pray three times a day) and expected all of the students to attend while nominally making attendance at the service optional.

 

The problem is that the situation created is unfair by its nature because the underlying power difference between coach and student athlete (it's along the same reasoning why we don't allow teachers to sleep with 18 year old students despite their being adults). That power dynamic matters.

What if your child said they're not comfortable with it because there was an implied pressure to conform even if it wasn't explicitly stated? You really think that's it's proper idea when that person is in authority over your child to engage your child in prayers of a religion that is not your own for which the potential exists for unfair pressure to conform exists?

Yes, about treatment. Disallowing gays to marry in your church is by definition unequal treatment. It's intolerant. Not knocking you for it, as I know you're not hateful, but this is where religions tend to become exclusive and bigoted, mainly because so many are built upon foundations of intolerance.

BTW, if there is a designer as you suggested, wouldn't that designer have designed the existence of gays?

 

No, by force I mean creating a literal inner circle at midfield that very obviously (and intentionally) signals to students that if they want favorable outcomes at school, they must participate in the coach's religious practices.

If the students felt the need to pray sua sponte, I have no problem with them doing that or even coach joining in as a participant. But when a public school coach starts promoting, leading, and organizing these prayers, while on duty, relying on the cudgel of his authority to coerce participation, that's abhorrent.

But as I said, these strategies will inevitably fail. Using state power to force your religion on kids may get them to trudge, unwillingly, to the 50. But all they'll do is roll their eyes at your desperation.

 

You want American law to reflect YOUR religious preferences.

 

Ok. You just named the biggest one in the US and that is .19% of the US business economy. There are Christian book stores etc but you have to admit… it’s pretty small.

 

it wasn't an analogy, just a story i had of my personal experience. Are you saying my post was off topic? if so please report me to a mod.

 

No, I don't. I specifically said they were not in the same category.

 

I guess your post was somewhat off-topic but I'm not going to rate it as such. The problem with the high school coach isn't that he was practicing his religion which I assume was your point but rather that he did so in a very public manner and even if actually unintended created the impression that the players on his team were expected to do so. As @mutz87 pointed out the real issue wasn't the coach's desire to practice his religion so much as matter of power dynamics.

 

It’s interesting to see the talking points from the right. Last week it was calling left minded folks here groomers. This week it is calling left minded people the intolerant. Guess they are searching for what sticks.

Maybe pick a different coach next time as an example. Dat one wasn’t praying to Gad for da win.

also, that picture appeared student lead and he came over for what he thought was them sharing a Papa John’s pizza.

 

Absolutely. And the ingroup is tired of feeling obligated to be tolerant

 

Nearly 30 years old. More relevant than ever

 

An honest man would have quoted this one:

 

A public school teacher cannot choose to speak about their hatred for the Republican Party in lieu of teaching math. By accepting their job with the government, they're accepting limitations on their free speech while on duty.

Similarly, a public school teacher cannot stop class, hold a prayer circle, and tell students to join. If a person doesn't like those limitations on their rights, they're welcome to get a job with a private employer.

No, I'm intolerant of those who seek to treat gay people as lesser. You jumping in the thread and getting all huffy over that isn't my problem.

It's because Gorsuch lied. This is from the fact section of the Ninth Circuit opinion. And before some person makes a clownish statement, Judge Milan Smith, a George W. Bush appointee, wrote the opinion:
Kennedy v. Bremerton Sch. Dist., 991 F.3d 1004 | Casetext Search + Citator
Kennedy's increasingly direct challenge to BSD escalated when he wrote BSD through his lawyer on October 14, 2015. The letter announced that Kennedy would resume praying on the fifty-yard line immediately after the conclusion of the October 16, 2015 game. Kennedy testified in his deposition that he intended the October 14 letter to communicate to the district that he "wasn't going to stop [his] prayer because there was [sic] kids around [him]." In other words, Kennedy was planning to pray on the fifty-yard line immediately after the game, and he would allow students to join him in that religious activity if they wished to do so. The lawyer's letter also demanded that BSD rescind the directive in its September 17 letter that Kennedy cease his post-game prayers at the fifty-yard line immediately after the game.

Kennedy's intention to pray on the field following the October 16 game was widely publicized through Kennedy and his representatives’ "numerous appearances and announcements [on] various forms of media." For example, the Seattle Times published an article on October 14 (the same day as the lawyer's letter was sent to BSD), entitled "Bremerton football coach vows to pray after game despite district order. A Bremerton High School football coach said he will pray at the 50-yard line after Friday's homecoming game, disobeying the school district's orders and placing his job at risk." The Seattle Times has the twenty-third largest circulation of any newspaper in the country, with an average Sunday circulation of 364,454. See Circulation numbers for the 25 largest newspapers , Seattle Times (May 1, 2012), https://bit.ly/2OGgYX5.
* * *
On the day of the game, the District had not yet responded to Kennedy's letter. Kennedy nonetheless proceeded as he indicated he would. The Satanist group was present at the game, but "they did not enter the stands or go on to the field after learning that the field would be secured." But Kennedy had access to the field by virtue of his position as a public-school employee. Once the final whistle blew, Kennedy knelt on the fifty-yard line, bowed his head, closed his eyes, "and prayed a brief, silent prayer." According to Kennedy, while he was kneeling with his eyes closed, "coaches and players from the opposing team, as well as members of the general public and media, spontaneously joined [him] on the field and knelt beside [him]." Kennedy's claim that the large gathering around him of coaches, players, a state elected official, and other members of the public who had been made aware of Kennedy's intentions because of the significant amount of publicity advertising what Kennedy was about to do, was "spontaneous" is self-evidently inaccurate. Moreover, Kennedy's counsel acknowledged in his October 14, 2015 letter that Kennedy's prayers were "verbal" and "audible," flatly contradicting Kennedy's own recounting. BSD stated that this demonstration of support for Kennedy involved "people jumping the fence" to access the field, and BSD received complaints from parents of students who had been knocked down in the stampede. Principal John Polm said that he "saw people fall[.]" Principal Polm testified that "when the public went out onto the field, we could not supervise effectively," resulting in "an inability to keep kids safe." A photo of this scene is in the record, and it depicts approximately twenty players in uniform kneeling around Kennedy with their eyes closed, a large group of what appear to be adults standing outside the ring of praying players, and several television cameras photographing the scene.

 

Truth! right?

 

That was her backtracking after I called her out on it.

 

Twist it as you wish. I have plenty of examples as to where I dont. A coach praying on taxpayer grass is not really the theocratic disaster some of you think it is lol.

Jesus wasnt that interested in earthly rulers and politics. He said render to Caesar that which is Caesar's. If its good enough for Him, Im down.

 

What services have I condoned denying them that I offer others? I deny a plethora of CONTENT in my freelance work. (as is my right to do). I wont do work for a pride parade, but I wouldn't do it for a "God hates gays" parade either. The later disgusts me far more.

 

Well my stance on Gay marriage says you are wrong.

I believe the constitution protects things I disagree with. Their marriage is irrelevant to me as I believe marriage is a covenant between a couple and God. The state can monetize it if they wish. It means nothing to me. Marriage is not defined by earthly kingdoms to a Christian.

 

Thank you. I didnt want to do the research. I am grateful you did. The article i read just indicated one of them was lying. I suspected it was Gorsuch but didnt want to say that without being sure.