War in Ukraine

Cnn live

"Macron wants complete stop of coal and oil exports from Russia to EU after Bucha "war crimes"

From CNN’s Joseph Ataman and Elias Lemercier

French President Emmanuel Macron said it’s “his wish” to see a total block on Russian exports of coal and oil to the European Union “this week," following the discovery of what he described as “war crimes” in the Ukrainian town of Bucha.

Speaking Monday on French broadcaster France Inter, Macron said there are “very clear signs” war crimes have been committed in Bucha and, “it’s pretty established that it’s the Russian army” who are responsible for them.

“We can’t let it slide. We must have sanctions that dissuade with what’s happened there (in Bucha), what’s happening at Mariupol,” he said.
Macron said that he would have discussions with his European partners this week regarding further sanctions.

“Those who are behind these crimes must answer for them,” he said.
“We must send the signal very clear that it’s our collective dignity and it’s our values that we defend,” he added. “There’s no peace without justice.""

 

It is still what we do, and will always be. Same as it ever was.

 

Cnn live

"Ukraine's Human Rights commissioner says Russia's treatment of prisoners of war violates Geneva Conventions

From CNN’s Alex Hardie in London
....
In a Facebook post on Monday, Denisova said that released Ukrainian soldiers have “told of the inhumane treatment of them by the Russian side: they were kept in a field, in a pit, in a garage. Periodically, one was taken out: beaten with rifle butts, shots fired next to their ear, intimidated.”

“The prisoners of war were taken away in an unknown direction and housed in a tent camp in temperatures of -20 degrees, as a result of which many boys had frostbite. They were treated like convicts, morally oppressed, and a dog was set on them while they were walking in the yard,” Denisova continued. She added that some had been “starved for several days.”

Article 13 of the Geneva Convention on POWs states that "prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated."

Denisova called on “the UN Commission for Investigation Human Rights Violations of the Russian Invasion of Ukraine and the expert mission set up by the OSCE participating States under the Moscow Mechanism to take into account these violations of the rights of Ukrainian prisoners of war.”"

 

As @G8trGr8t said, it's what they used to do. Why not draw equivalencies to the Assyrians?

The idea is we move civilization forward from those days. We create a world where those dark human traits - the ones that are in us all - cannot be acted upon by states.

It's the macro version of making murder illegal. Codifying acceptable behaviour in state actors in the same way we do individuals.

The 20th century showed that this is imperative and the US demonstrated how.

 

So we are arguing to that superpowers no longer try to control the world?

 

The few tweets on this were way too graphic, but apparently Russian soldiers are also going around shooting dogs/pets, some in homes, some in shelters. Just....ugh.

 

They can try all they want, but not by conducting wars of choice against sovereign states.

 

The method is a different topic.

 

Robert Forcyzk is a leading historian of the Nazi debacle and the warfare on the Eastern Front. The Nazi juggernaut started to fall apart in the winter of 41-42. It's combat units were well lead and trained. The logistics were terrible. With Adolph calling the shots, they were doomed to fail.
The Russian forces in Ukraine are neither well lead and appear poorly trained. The logistics are absolutely horrendous. If Putin is calling the shots, they are doomed.
Note; Blitzkreig was a made up word by the press. The term used by the Wehrmacht was "schwerpunkt if i remember the spelling. It was application of overwhelming combined arms power at the weakest point of the enemy. Again Russian forces in Ukraine failed on this miserably. They attacked from multiple fronts with limited success. Plus they over whelmed there logistics capabilities.

I think the Russians will pull out with minimal gains. They screwed the pooch and like the Nazis, underestimated their enemy.


Tank Warfare on the Eastern Front 1943-1945 Robert Forczyk
Kursk 1943: The Southern Front Robert Forczyk
Where the Iron Cross's Grow The Crimea 1941-1944 Robert Forczyk
Tank Warfare on the Eastern Front 1941-1942 Robert Forczyk

 

Because they are hungry.

 

I would understand that. And that's been mentioned before. These are apparently soldiers shooting them then leaving them, as some of the pictures show dogs shot in their kennels for example. If you're hungry and are going to eat it, you don't leave it behind just shot up.

 

I agree with this. I think that Russians are good after a while in defense. Chechnya I think they overwhelmed and exhausted the opponent. I think this may be more comparable to Afghanistan. They were the invader and the Afghanis weren't giving up no matter what.

 

Judging by the thread title and the last 5k posts, I'd say this is exactly the topic.

 

Not what I was arguing in this particular exchange.

 

In high school someone did an oral presentation on WWII. In it he said America liberated countries and the Soviets conquered them. He then pointed out his word choice was intentional.

 

They are just savages.

 

Well, under the modern international system of sovereign states, I haven't seen anyone argue that there can be no competition.

The exchange you jumped in on was in reference to reckless, in-humane foreign policy, and you pretty much agreed it was by citing colonial Spain and Britain as examples.

If your point was literally, "we look out for our interests, too." - I'm not sure I see the relevance to this thread.

 

Do you acknowledge a difference between control vs influence?

 

No, the topic is war