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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    I saw his video yesterday on tiktok. There are also other videos of foreign soldiers meeting up, getting signed up, getting weapons, etc from the Ukranian soldiers handling them. Others have videos of getting sent to varying assignments if they came in as medics, etc.

    This one is the first & only one I've seen so, honestly, it's either an isolated incident or possibly a lie.
     
  2. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    Have you tried to look up merc accounts? I've been searching for them. They seem to be typically reddit or 4chan types, no filter, good first hand accounts on the ground. The reports have been remarkably consistent, and you're right, not everyone runs.

    Here are some other accounts I've found.

    Article, this guy stayed as most of his group left after the missile strike in Yavoriv:
    ‘Russians hit my training base last night’ — Ukraine through the eyes of a US Army veteran fighting there

    This guy ran, though he was injured anyway.
    https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/365525177
    [​IMG]

    This guy ran.

     
  3. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I had never heard that the war is being orchestrated by " the globohomo jew banker cartel" before today, either.
     
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  4. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Just a few comments. The indiscriminate bombing, shelling with artillery or targeting missiles towards civilians is deliberately targeting civilians. If apartment blocks occupied by civilians were hit a few times it could be chalked up as mistakes. When it happens hundreds of times in dozens of cities it's intentional and it's straight out of the playbook Putin used in Grozny and Aleppo. While Putin's support in Russia did go up immediately after the invasion, it will almost certainly drop as Russian conscripts start coming home in body bags and coffins. Remember that Putin himself told the Russian people that the Russian fighters in Ukraine were professional soldiers not conscripts. The Russians are going to learn the real tragic truth the hard way. While I sincerely hope that we never find out, the US military is far better prepared for war than the Russians. US service personnel are better trained, have better equipment and far superior logistics.
     
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  5. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Oh I generally don’t go to such sites, but when I do I can’t help but read the comment's to see the ugly side or how far right extremists are framing things. I know what this platform is and the comments did not disappoint.
     
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  6. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    I understand. I did not think you are endorsing that. I just worry about my soul if I look too much at that stuff
     
  7. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    Yes, that guy, someone who's consistently been against our foreign policy vs. Russia over the years.

    How do you choose who to believe? I find it difficult to find moderate voices in this time of war. It's either American propaganda like CNN or Russian shills like Blumenthal and Macgregor. I'm only hoping that I can find the truth somewhere in between.
     
  8. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    It took me a minute to figure out they were referring to Zelensky as the “globohomo Jew”, since the same people also apparently want to convince everyone he’s a Nazi. o_O
     
  9. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Why wait to look? It will be mainstream Republican politics in less than 10 years. Might as well get a preview. (I'm scared that I dont know if I meant this as a joke or not)
     
  10. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Forget the timeline - the future tense may be wrong. Still hoping, but also considering options
     
  11. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    There’s some extremely easy ways to cut through the bullshit. How many missiles lobbed into Ukraine vs. into Russia? How many buildings destroyed in Ukraine vs. Russia? How many civilians killed in Ukraine vs. Russia? Pretty sure the answer to all of these for one side of the ledger is… zero. Russia did this invasion unprovoked. Because they thought Ukraine might join NATO?

    Obviously while under attack and overmatched, Ukraine is engaging in their own misinformation warfare and propoganda in terms of “how the war is going”. They are doing questionable things like putting POW’s in front of the press. But I don’t think anyone believes Russia’s invasion has gone to their initial plan, unless their plan was to turn Ukrainian cities into rubble and to cut themselves off from the world for decades to come.
     
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  12. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    I have no doubt that the Russians care far less about civilian casualties than we do, I think you're a bit biased by the extraordinary measures we take to reduce collateral damage, as well as our extraordinary capability in doing so with our intel and PGMs. I'm sure you've seen videos of carpet bombing and MLRS barrages. If Russia had wanted to shell the population into submission, he'd use those weapons, not a shell here, a missile there.

    What the evidence suggests is not mass attack on civilians, but rather a far less regard for and capability to avoid collateral damage than Western militaries.
     
  13. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    Russia is the aggressor, no one's arguing that. Russia's plan is clearly not to turn Ukrainian cities into rubble, everyone appears to also agree with that. Not sure what you're arguing here?
     
  14. slightlyskeptic

    slightlyskeptic All American

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    Like you he’s appears to be a Russian sympathizer who went on Russian TV saying he believes Russia was right in taking Crimea and eastern Ukraine. Shocking. :rolleyes:
     
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  15. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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  16. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    While I think it’s clear Russia could inflict even more pain on civilians (obviously at maximum they could just nuke Kyiv off the face of the earth, killing everyone) - it seems that they are using “siege of cities” as a sort of strategy because they don’t have the capacity to actually move in and control the streets. So they are quite literally trying to starve the population out to achieve “victory”. The problem is, if there is no surrender and you turn a couple of these cities into Alleppo with continued strikes. You end up with civilian casualties on a mass scale, looking at the images out of Mariupol I’m already assuming the true civilian casualty counts are far higher than reported. But if you start doing that in Kiev or the western part of the country it goes up exponentially.
     
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  17. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    Its like arguing, “yeah I raped your wife but I made sure your kids were in another room with the TV on so they only heard a little of it.
    Of course Russia could inflict more damage on civilians, but the fact that there are any at risk and dying is on Russia. There is no minimizing or rationalizing their actions. And let’s see how many are dead before this is all over, as they are ramping up the civilian attacks each day.
     
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  18. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    I find someone willing to go on a propaganda network in Russia to cheer on a dictator moves the needle more than enough for me.

    there are valid discussions to be had around policy towards Russia, but this guy isn’t part of that discussion.
     
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  19. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    There has to be pain and suffering otherwise humans would be immortal. No one would ever die.
     
  20. StrangeGator

    StrangeGator VIP Member

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    How do you choose who to believe? I find it difficult to find moderate voices in this time of war. It's either American propaganda like CNN or Russian shills like Blumenthal and Macgregor. I'm only hoping that I can find the truth somewhere in between.[/QUOTE]

    This is a helpful resource for choosing the most reliable news and analysis.

    Static Media Bias Chart - Ad Fontes Media

    CNN skews a little left but they're highly rated for fact reporting and analysis. I rely on it a lot for up-to-the-minute reporting, then somewhere like the the NY Times, the Guardian or WSJ for a deep dive into something I read on cnn.com. I listen to NPR and the BBC News Hour when I'm in my car. The best analysis for international relations is Foreign Affairs but it's not in real time.

    I don't watch television news at all.