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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    No clue & I'm not suggesting it. Just found it interesting because like you I'd think an EMP would be hard to pinpoint. Unless we happen to have some secret "ray gun" type of thing where it can be pinpointed. Plus wouldn't something like that then make the enemy plane crash, which would then trigger a military response from Russia anyway?
     
  2. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Correct. Plus my knowledge of an EMP is that it would fry everything all around. They are not directed, to my knowledge. If you read "One Second After", you may never sleep again
     
  3. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    This would be an engineering question & I'm not that smart. LOL.
     
  4. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    Cnn live:

    "5 injured by Russian fire on evacuation convoy traveling to Zaporizhzhia, Ukrainian officials say

    From CNN's Tim Lister and Olga Voitovych in Lviv

    An evacuation convoy from the town of Enerhodar in the middle of the country came under fire while traveling towards the city of Zaporizhzhia, Ukrainian authorities say.
    ....
    But five hours later, the convoy was hit by artillery fire as it passed near the town of Stepnohirsk, according to the regional administration.

    "Artillery of enemy forces fired on a convoy of civilians near Stepnohirsk moving along the highway towards Zaporizhzhia," Oleksandr Starukh, head of Zaporizhzhia region administration, informed on his Telegram channel. "There are no dead. It is currently known there are five wounded, including one child in serious condition."

    He added, "Currently, the injured child is undergoing a complex operation with the remote involvement of specialists from the Okhmatdyt Clinic. A fire broke out in the field along the route as a result of the shelling.""
     
  5. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    If he said “EMP,” he probably meant “electromagnetic warfare” or EW. They are two different things. Our newer aircraft, the F35 and EF18G in particular, can do some really wild (and highly classified) stuff to influence the battle space without firing a shot. That is a large part of why Russia and China have invested so heavily in a domestic disinformation campaign to cancel those programs. They have no other answer for them presently other than trying to get us not to build them. We will have to leave it at that.
     
    • Informative Informative x 7
  6. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    Cnn live

    "US "looking very hard" at whether Russia is targeting journalists in Ukraine, secretary of state says

    From CNN's Jennifer Hansler

    US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the US is “looking very hard” at whether Russia is intentionally targeting journalists in Ukraine.

    At least three journalists have been killed covering the war in Ukraine in the past several days — Pierre Zakrzewski, Oleksandra Kuvshynova and Brent Renaud – and at least two have been severely injured.

    “We are looking very hard at the targeting that the Russian forces are doing, including whether they are deliberately, intentionally targeting civilians, journalists or anyone else,” he said in an interview with NPR that aired Wednedsday.

    “This is something we're looking hard at, we're documenting. Others are looking at this. The deliberate targeting of civilians, journalists and others would constitute a war crime,” he said."
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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  8. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia faces IT crisis with just two months of data storage left

    "Russia faces a critical IT storage crisis after Western cloud providers pulled out of the country, leaving Russia with only two more months before they run out of data storage.

    The Russian government is exploring various solutions to resolve this IT storage problem, ranging from leasing all available domestic data storage to seizing IT resources left behind by businesses that pulled out of the country."
     
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  9. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    • Agree Agree x 1
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  10. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, but again I ask, to what end? In the real world, war crimes are only something winners can enforce and losers need to worry about. Without a viable threat of Western intervention (versus current Western assurances of non-intervention), Russia does not need to concern itself with war crimes, only with winning.
     
  11. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    We all too often underestimate the impact of soft power. I think this is one of those instances. I feel certain that consideration of future war crime allegations, even if they don't result in being brought before the Hague, are useful. Really, almost all of the unified Western response is in part a substantial function of soft power and the creation of international norms that have been more egregiously and blatantly violated, creating unity that almost never happens and even causing the Chinese to be very qualified in their support
     
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  12. danmann65

    danmann65 All American

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    My understanding is an emp zaps all computers and microchips unless they are shielded. The only way to do one the last time I looked into(maybe 30 years ago) was by detonating a nuke. I vaguely think I read we could trigger one now without a nuke but wonder if the Russians have shielded stuff and how much damage it would do to Ukraine's defenses.
     
  13. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Still cannot get this book out of my head

    One Second After - Wikipedia
     
  14. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    I can only think that *maybe* something like that might influence countries siding with Russia but you're right that Russia doesn't care. Even though it may not mean much, though, at least it would be a degree of justice to those killed/attacked. And on the off chance Putin retains power he would basically never be able to leave Russia or face arrest.
     
  15. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Speaking for self, I don’t underestimate soft power. Diplomatic, informational, and economic measures are essential means to a whole-of-government approach. However, they can be ineffective, or at least not as effective as they could be, when you unequivocally tell the enemy that under no circumstance are you going to use force.

    We are like an armed police officer, watching a robbery and rape in progress, but we stand back and cite the statutes and penalties for these crimes.

    The perpetrator looks up and says, “Are you going to arrest me?”

    We scoff. “Of course not. We’re afraid of your suicide vest.”

    “So are you going to stop me?”

    “No. We’re too afraid to do that, too.”

    “So I would, like, have to take off my suicide vest and turn myself in for any of these penalties to apply?”

    “Yes. If you would do that, it would be great.”

    “Don’t think I will. You just keep shaking your fist and telling me that I can’t come to any more neighborhood parties.”
     
  16. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Any war crime considerations will be prosecuted later. I'm not aware of any international war crime issues that are addressed through direct intervention. Doesn't mean it's not a deterrent
     
  17. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    What I’m saying is, unless we defeat Russia, one way or another, these war criminals are never going to be in the hands of anyone who can and will prosecute them. So, no, it is not much of a deterrent.
     
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  18. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    Typical EMPs today is not directed, although theoretically you can direct an electromagnetic wave much like a laser. Nature does it with lightning.

    The problem with downing a plane with it is that is one, a plane is covered with metal, which essentially makes it a Faraday cage. It's been a long time but IIRC from my electrical engineering classes, EM waves would just travel around a metallic object and not penetrate it to fry the electronics inside. The second thing is that if it brings down a plane, I don't see how that's different from a missile attack.

    I'm assuming by "sonar radar" he's referring to directed sound waves, one of the directed energy weapons mostly used for crowd dispersion these days. I'm not aware of one that's even close to being powerful enough to affect a plane from afar.
     
  19. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    We'll just have to disagree on that one. Though they are not as expeditionary a military as we are, I think the same considerations that caused the US to refuse to ratify the ICC treaty will factor into their ability to project force in regions in the future if many of the actors have potential war crimes prosecutions or convictions in absentia over there head
     
  20. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    Cnn live:

    "Theater in Mariupol where hundreds were taking refuge has been bombed, according to city council

    From Tim Lister and Olga Voitovych in Lviv, Ukraine

    The Mariupol City Council has posted an image of the Ukrainian city's theater — where hundreds of people are said to have taken shelter — after it sustained heavy damage in a bombing Wednesday.

    CNN has geolocated the image and confirmed it is of the theater. Videos showed a fire raging in the theater's ruins.
    ....
    The council added on its Telegram channel: "It is still impossible to estimate the scale of this horrific and inhumane act, because the city continues to shell residential areas. It is known that after the bombing, the central part of the Drama Theater was destroyed, and the entrance to the bomb shelter in the building was destroyed."
    ....
    "It is impossible to find words that could describe the level of cruelty and cynicism with which the Russian occupiers are destroying the civilian population of the Ukrainian city by the sea. Women, children, and the elderly remain in the enemy's sights. These are completely unarmed peaceful people," it said.
    ....
    "According to preliminary data, more than a 1,000 people were hiding there. The number of dead and injured is unknown. The probability of getting there to dismantle the rubble is low due to constant shelling and bombing of the city," he said."
     
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