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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    No way, is she really saying that a different foreign policy by another president allowed us to avoid war? That won't jive well with some folks here.
     
  2. ncargat1

    ncargat1 VIP Member

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    Pretty sure she is saying that the previous president was a collaborator of someone she called a "war criminal" in that interview. So, by if a "different foreign policy" you mean appease the war criminal and allow him to do whatever he wanted, then yes, that policy would have temporarily kept us out of war.....which, unless I am wrong, does not really seem like we are at war now, however.
     
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  3. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    Can't like the tiktok but it's by CBS...Ukranians bringing in Russian weapons/equipment to auto body shops to get modified for Ukranian use :emoji_joy: the header was "MacGyver meets Mad Max"
     
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  4. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Disagree. Russia is fighting an aggressive war again. China is an economic competitor. And a larger one than Russia. They are about making money. Russia is about stealing resources. I fail to see how someone can look at Ukraine and say, “China is a bigger enemy” when Putin threatened nuclear war.
     
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  5. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    No. She assessed that Trump was a collaborator with Putin and he was relying on Trump to destroy NATO because she and others assessed Trump would withdraw from NATO. War during the Trump Administration would have reduced Trump’s chances for re-election given that Putin’s active measures in 2015 showed his support for Trump and Trump has paid tribute to Putin in Helsinki. So Putin did nothing to risk Trump’s re-election. Because Putin wanted NATO destroyed. Once Trump lost, Putin was free to act without hurting Trump. He would have acted later if Trump has been re-elected, first pushing to destroy NATO. And even if the Senate rejected the pull out, Trump could just ignore Article V by refusing to order responses if there was a relevant act.
     
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  6. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    Gooden Introduces Bill Authorizing Private Seizure of Russian Oligarch’s Property

    "WASHINGTON – On Monday, Congressman Lance Gooden (R-Texas) introduced legislation to require President Biden to issue Letters of Marque and Reprisal for the seizure of yachts, planes, or other property belonging to a Russian citizen on the Department of the Treasury’s list of sanctioned individuals.

    Rep. Lance Gooden said, “Putin’s inner circle have planes and yachts sitting at airports and harbors all over the world. If President Biden refuses to act quickly, then it is time Congress and American citizens take matters into their own hands. Russian oligarchs must be held accountable for enabling the disgusting invasion of Ukraine.”

    Letters of Marque and Reprisal are a historic tool authorized by the U.S. Constitution to allow private citizens or groups to seize enemy property on behalf of the U.S. government. Rep. Gooden’s legislation would require President Biden to utilize this authority to seize Russian yachts, planes, or other property."

    Sooooo...pirates? Or would this be privateers? Either way, "Pirates of the Caribbean" theme playing in my head. Can you imagine the Cajun Navy commandeering an oligarch's yacht?? :cool:
     
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  7. Swamplizard

    Swamplizard VIP Member

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    Russia's foreign ministry says it has imposed sanctions on US President Joe Biden and 12 other US officials.

    The list includes Secretary of State Antony Blinken, Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin, press secretary Jen Psaki and other members of the administration.

    But it also includes two surprises: former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Mr Biden's son Hunter.

    The measures block their entry into Russia and freeze any assets held in the country.


    Russia sanctions Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton and others
     
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  8. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    Are they giving Hillary her "Reset" button back?
     
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  9. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    You are embarrassing yourself. Report back to your handlers, ask for a different pitch, then try under a new screen name.
     
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  10. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    OK, can we consider that question settled then? At least with you? Still need to work on duchen it seems, but I'd like to move onto the next step of discussion, which is whether it's wise to appease Putin's demands on Ukraine/NATO. You obviously think it's unwise, but we can discuss the pros and cons. We've certainly worked with many unsavory characters in the past and at present, so it's really a matter of whether the pros outweigh the cons.

    You're putting words in her mouth, aren't you? Let's stick to what she actually said, which is that regardless of what your interpretation of what she meant by Trump's "disdain" for Ukraine/NATO, Putin would not have invaded had we followed Trump's policy. This runs contrary to your claim that Putin would have invaded regardless of what happened with Ukraine and NATO.

    Do you think China's recent nuclear build up, hypersonic missiles, and stealth fighters, and aircraft carriers is just for fun and giggles? When can we start preparing for challenges of the future instead of getting stuck on fighting yesterday's enemies?
     
  11. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    Feel sorry for the younger conscripts that had no choice/no idea.

    "Russian prisoners of war in Ukraine voice disquiet, shame over war - CNN"

    ""I want to tell our commander-in-chief to stop terror acts in Ukraine because when we come back we'll rise against him."

    Russian President Vladimir Putin "has given orders to commit crimes. It's not just to demilitarize Ukraine or defeat the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but now cities of peaceful civilians are being destroyed."

    "The crimes that we committed; we all will be judged.""

    Some quotes from the POWs.
     
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  12. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    Great news...this needs stability.

    "Chernobyl power plant has reconnected to national electricity grid, UN nuclear watchdog says

    From CNN's Niamh Kennedy in London

    Ukraine has informed the UN's nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), that the Chernobyl nuclear power plant has reconnected to the national electricity grid after losing on site power last Wednesday. "
     
  13. gatorchamps960608

    gatorchamps960608 GC Hall of Fame

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    I can't help but notice they didn't sanction any republicans.
     
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  14. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    No. I am not putting words in her mouth. I disagree with your view of what she said. And I expressed my view of what would have happened in a second Trump term. Because Putin was attacking Ukraine regardless of who the president is or would have been. And, Russia is not an adversary of the past. It is n adversary right now. It is only not an adversary now if you are willing to appease them and you have made it very clear that you prefer that policy. China isn’t even close, even if it had better military equipment than Russia. Preparing to respond to that equipment should be important to our foreign policy. But China is a boogeyman compared to Russia right now.
     
  15. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    From CNN live

    "Ukrainian official accuses Russian forces of holding people captive at a hospital in Mariupol

    From CNN's Ivana Kottasová in Lviv and Marina Marukhnych in Odessa

    Pavlo Kyrylenko, the Head of Donetsk regional administration, said doctors and patients were being held against their will in the Mariupol regional intensive care hospital, also referred to as Hospital No. 2.

    In a statement posted on his official Telegram channel, Kyrylenko said one of the hospital employees managed to pass on information about what was happening.

    "It is impossible to get out of the hospital. They shoot hard, we sit in the basement. Cars have not been able to drive to the hospital for two days. High-rise buildings around us are burning … the Russians have rushed 400 people from neighboring buildings to our hospital. We can't leave,” Kyrylenko said, quoting the employee of the hospital. "
     
  16. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    They are appealing to the “Hunter Biden” right wingers. They are trying to create division.
     
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  17. Shade45

    Shade45 Premium Member

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    Biden signs massive spending bill into law that dedicates billions to Ukraine aid - CNNPolitics

    Washington (CNN)President Joe Biden on Tuesday signed a massive spending bill into law that includes $13.6 billion in new aid to Ukraine, saying during a signing ceremony that the new assistance shows the United States is "moving urgently to further augment the support to the brave people of Ukraine as they defend their country."

    "Today we're again showing the American people that as a country we can come together, as Democrats and Republicans and independents, and do big things; that our democracy can deliver ... and outperform autocracies, and that there's nothing we can't do when we do it together as the United States of America," Biden told an audience of lawmakers at the White House.
     
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  18. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    China wants to take Taiwan, a place that actually matters to us. Russia wants to take Ukraine, a place that doesn't matter to us. China can also threaten us militarily AND economically, unlike Russia.

    Russia is an adversary only if you care about Ukraine, which nobody would if not for the propaganda blasted in our faces 24/7 as can be seen by icequeen's continuous broadcasting of CNN propaganda. Ukraine matters a lot to Russia, it matters about as much to us as Syria. I couldn't care less who Russia was bombing in Syria just like how I couldn't care less who they're bombing in Ukraine.

    What happens in Ukraine doesn't affect my life. The only way it can affect my life is if we make it so with sanctions, or if it escalates to nuclear war. I see no reason to sacrifice my wealth let alone my life for something I don't give a crap about. That's especially true when it distract us from the fight for supremacy with China, a fight that does already affect millions of American lives, has significantly contributed to the divisions within this country, and will only get worse as they gain technological, economical, and military clout.
     
  19. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Nobody thought the Sudetenland mattered much either. Or the war on Asia in WW2. Until it did. Fortunately for this country and the world, your personal preferences don’t drive foreign policy.
     
  20. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    You should read up a bit more on history. We were strangling Japan with steel and oil embargoes, that's why they decided that they need to attack us. They could not support their military with our embargoes in place. It's precisely because we decided that we do care about what happened in Asia that we got dragged into the war.

    And no, Sudetenland didn't matter. What mattered was failure to contain a rising superpower in Nazi Germany before it got too strong. Russia is not a rising power, China is.