Right. I don’t see this as a bad thing if the most powerful people in Russia are distancing themselves from Putin.
No conflation here. Without NATO Ukraine has no protection against Russia. They lack the full spectrum MIC to even maintain their current equipment without the Russians, let alone making new ones, and they sure as heck can't afford to buy Western equipment. Ukraine will have to side with Russia, especially without EU integration either. Yes, Putin wants to create a Russian empire, and that cannot happen without Ukraine. Ukraine is even more essential than Belarus in this regard. I don't think we disagree much except for the significance of Ukraine joining NATO or not. It's absolutely essential for Putin that it does not happen. As I've said many times on this board, I don't like to get into fights that I can't win, and this is a fight we can't win. It's not because of a lack of capability versus our enemy, but because of a lack of intent. We simply don't have the resolve to bring Ukraine into NATO as Putin does in keeping it out.
You'd be foolish to think you don't hear propaganda here, or that Americans are less susceptible to it. Heck, what was it, 40% of Americans believe that the election was rigged? How many deaths around the world have we been responsible of the past 20+ years? While you're just grabbing numbers out of your butt, there are actual tallies of civilian deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. by independent sources. This is just this past winter: Facing Economic Collapse, Afghanistan Is Gripped by Starvation Total tally in Afghanistan: Human and Budgetary Costs to Date of the U.S. War in Afghanistan, 2001-2022 | Figures | Costs of War In Iraq alone, and only counting deaths from direct war related violence: Iraqi Civilians | Costs of War Sounds like YOU are the one who's been listening to a bit too much propaganda.
"The head of Russia’s space program is apparently changing his tune. Dmitry Rogozin, the director general of Russian space agency Roscosmos, appealed to NASA for help in the wake of incredibly restrictive economic sanctions on his home country over the weekend. Strangely, that message comes after weeks of spouting pro-Putin and anti-US propaganda, not to mention belligerent threats about the International Space Station, following the Russian invasion of Ukraine. “Roscosmos sends written appeals to NASA, the Canadian Space Agency, and the European Space Agency with a demand to lift illegal sanctions from our enterprises,” Rogozin tweeted in Russian on Saturday. He added that this is in the interest of the ISS — which, it’s worth noting, he has threatened to destroy." From a site called "Futurism". Tried putting the link but it changed to a "log in" type of link, even though it's a free site.
We need to send a space x to get the non Russians off the iss. Parting words can be " go eff yourselves".
Second Chechen War - Wikipedia "Estimate up to 25,000 killed and up to 5,000 disappeared in Chechnya (AI estimate)[23] Estimate total number of casualties: ~80,000 killed in Chechnya (GfbV estimate),[24] More in neighbouring regions, 40,000–45,000 civilians killed (Kramer),[25] More than 600 killed during attacks in Russia proper. Total killed military/civilian: ~50,000–80,000" "The Committee of Soldiers' Mothers group disputed the official government count of the number of war dead and claimed that 14,000 Russian servicemen were killed during the war from 1999 to 2005." First Chechen War - Wikipedia "30,000–40,000 civilians killed (RFSSS data)[13] 80,000 civilians killed (Human rights groups estimate)[14] At least 161 civilians killed outside Chechnya[15] 500,000+ civilians displaced[16] "The official figure for Russian military deaths was 5,732; most estimates put the number between 3,500 and 7,500, but some go as high as 14,000"" Didn't grab Syria because there deaths attributed to coalition forces too not just Russia. I agree with there being propaganda in the US. There's propaganda everywhere to a degree. Where you lost me was comparing 20 years' worth of data including the deaths of terrorists/combatants, deaths of those killed by suicide bombings, and want to blame the US for those. Let me know when the US uses banned weapons/specifically targets civilians (don't mean accidental). As to possible deaths from sanctions, they are a tool used to avoid active conflict. Afghanistan isn't the only sanctioned country out there. They care about their people they're welcome to negotiate & abide by agreements to get sanctions lifted, just like any other country.
By the way, for those that feel that strongly that the US is as bad as Russia, that the US is hypocritical, etc, by all means go start a separate thread about it to discuss it.
Cnn live...risky. Wouldn't be doing in person like this... "Prime Ministers of Poland, Slovenia and Czech Republic en route to meet Zelensky in Kyiv From CNN's Antonia Mortensen The Prime Minsters of Poland, Slovenia and the Czech Republic have departed on a train bound for Kyiv to meet with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal. The train with the leaders on board departed before 9 a.m. local time, the head of the chancellery of the Prime Minister of Poland, Michal Dworczyk, said Tuesday. Traveling to the Ukrainian capital is Poland's Mateusz Morawiecki and his deputy Jarosław Kaczyński, Slovenia's Janez Janša and the Czech Republic's Petr Fiala. The purpose of the visit is "to confirm the unequivocal support of the entire European Union for the sovereignty and independence of Ukraine and to present a broad package of support for the Ukrainian state and society," a government spokesperson said."
I’m keenly aware propaganda happens here too. Hell, we just witnessed the Baghdad Bob administration, with almost total integration with a TV news network. Nevermind the even more distopian nonsense that has come after (including the 1/6 stop the steal and various QANON type thinking that permeated). Obviously the shocking thing here is people willingly subjugate themselves, in Russia the state controls all media so there is no balance between truth and nonsense. In either case you don’t have to tell me the Iraq War was a mistake. It’s the mistake that keeps on giving, since apparently now even Americans have to point to that and include that “math” when deciding if it would just better to let a democracy fall. Here’s the thing: Iraq war may have been colossally misguided. It may have been delusional to think we could simply bring them “freedom”. There is no such confusion in Ukraine. Ukraine *has* freedom, they have sovereignty and they are being destroyed because an “empire” wants to subjugate them and take their land.
Large cyberattack against Israel. Iran claims to have thwarted Mossad attack against their main enrichment facility Cyberattack against Israel follows reports of Mossad op against Iran
That is not what this war is about. NATO or not, this war would happen. In Putin's vision for the world, a medieval narrative resurfaces We haven’t brought Ukraine into NATO because it has not addressed the issues we need it to. It is not as simple as, “we want you in” or not. For now, Ukraine doesn’t qualify. But, you need to get away from the NATO justification. That is just more Putin BS.
The start of the Iraq war was based on a lie. Plainly propaganda. Iraq did not have WMDs and was not aligned with Al Queda. The war in Afghanistan was started because the Taliban gave Al Queda safe haven there. The rest of your post identifies consequences of war and our leaving there. None of that is propaganda. Just bad results. And, don’t compare the US to the Russians. We called out the propaganda before the Iraq war, during it and afterward. It was a major issue in the GOP primaries in 2014. Not punishable by the government here. And a large number of deaths in Iraq ongoing are the product of the Shiite v Sunni disputes that date for over 1000 years.
Geneva: Some 1.4 million children have now fled Ukraine since the Russian invasion began on February 24, meaning nearly one child a second has become a refugee, the UN said Tuesday. Fresh numbers from the International Organization for Migrantion (IOM) showed Tuesday that more than three million people have now fled Ukraine. Nearly half of them are thus children. One Child Becoming A Refugee Every Second In Ukraine, Says UN
From CNN live "Kharkiv was struck 65 times on Monday and 600 residence buildings have been destroyed so far, officials say From CNN’s Ivana Kottasová and Yulia Kesaieva in Lviv One person was killed and another seriously injured after multiple strikes hit the northeastern Ukrainian city of Kharkiv on Monday, Oleh Syniehubov, the head of Kharkiv regional administration, said Tuesday. Syniehubov said there were 65 instances of shelling against the city on Monday alone. He said fighting was going on in Izium, Balaklia and Dergachi, three towns in the region of Kharkiv. Meanwhile, 600 residential buildings in the city had been destroyed in Russian attacks since the start of the war, Kharkiv’s mayor Ihor Terekhov said Monday, adding that the houses cannot be repaired."
Interesting piece... In Putin's vision for the world, a medieval narrative resurfaces - CNN One of the items mentioned is that there are segments of the Orthodox Church now breaking with Russia's head of the Church over Ukraine.
Germany beginning arming itself due to the War in Ukraine... Germany will buy F-35 jets as it ramps up military spending after Russia's Ukraine invasion - CNN "The F-35s will replace Germany's aging fleet of Tornados, the only planes in the Luftwaffe's inventory capable of carrying US nuclear bombs that are stored in the country in case of war breaking out in Europe. The decision to buy F-35s is significant as it will make Germany's air force more compatible with the rest of NATO and other European defense partners who either operate or intend to purchase F-35s."
You sound so cavalier about killing a million children. If Ukraine cares about their people they're welcome to negotiate and abide by agreements with Russia to not get invaded, just like any other country. See how that sounds? Is it so different to kill with guns versus without? Ukraine has freedom? They're controlled by an oligarchy. Zelensky was himself in hot waters over the Pandora Papers just a few months ago, but now propaganda has convinced you that he's a hero leading a free country. They have sovereignty? So did Iraq? Such mental gymnastics going on here to justify how one killing is better than another. Again, I specifically addressed why Ukraine would be controlled by Russia without NATO, and thus no need for war for Putin to take control of Ukraine. You have not countered that besides stating again and again that "this is just more Putin BS." Balance of power politics is apparently lost on folks these days. It's not lost to Putin or some of our most pre-eminent minds in the older generation. You should listen to some talks by Kissinger or Mearsheimer about why NATO expansion into Ukraine is a red line for Putin.
