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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    Question- how feasible is it to throw Russia out of the UN Security Council? If not the whole UN. But at least that or the Human Rights Council.
     
  2. ncargat1

    ncargat1 VIP Member

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    Wouldn't Russia have to vote Russia off of the security council? Is so, then guessing not that likely.
     
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  3. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Not at all. They are a permanent member of the Security Council, which comes with veto power over anything before the council. There was some noise about Ukraine challenging Russia for the spot, since it was initially given to the USSR, but the fact that we have treated Russia as the successor state to the USSR in just about every way for the last 30 years undermines that hard.
     
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  4. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    That’s the wiser move. There is a very small amount of explosive material, relative to other munitions, in MANPADS. This is because it doesn’t take much of an explosion to bring down an aircraft, and you sacrifice speed and maneuverability by loading more into the warhead than necessary. So while you could convert the inoperable ones into IEDs, old artillery shells are better, and — as you point out — cannibalizing two that don’t work to make one that does is going to give you a better weapon in the end.
     
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  5. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Stupid comment on two counts. Save political victory laps for victories. Despite stronger resistance than expected, Ukraine is losing their country, and we are doing next to nothing about it. Or more generously, we aren’t doing nearly as much as we could be.
     
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  6. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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  7. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    I strongly suspect that Russia will end up losing this conflict over the long-term. Even if they "win," they are left with an ungovernable and destroyed country requiring substantial capital investment with no ability to do so. And in return, they can't import anything, as their currency is trashed, will need to provide capital investors with absurd returns to get any investment, and they will likely see a return to the bread lines.
     
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  8. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    It seems odd to have a CLEAR bad actor like this as a “permanent” member. It basically undermines the whole thing.

    At the very least that nonsensical veto power has to go. Maybe we need a “new” UN.
     
  9. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes, and who also loses in that scenario?
     
  10. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    Do we adjust domestic agriculture given the prospect of a protracted conflict that will take 30% of the worlds wheat off the global market?

    And if so, how is that done? Is there an agency that gives guidance on such matters? Some temporary central control seems in order.

    Maybe a bit less corn and a bit more wheat?

    Good time to go Atkins / Keto.
     
  11. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    It is kind of the whole purpose of the UN though, which is distinct from bodies that are more likely to act like NATO. The idea is that everybody is supposed to be a member regardless of how bad an actor they are. People need to think of the UN less as some sort of world government and more as a global discussion forum and attempt to increase the costs of at least some (although certainly not all) conflicts.
     
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  12. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Ukraine and Belarus. But there isn't a scenario in which Ukraine really "wins" this exchange either. That doesn't mean that there aren't winners, one of whom is likely the US if Putin's kleptocracy crashes.
     
  13. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    My pie in the sky is another February 1917, but this time we keep the Bolsheviks out and allow liberal western democracy to flourish.

    Hey - a guy can dream.
     
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  14. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    So your idea of best-case scenario is protracted insurgency, depopulation, and land destruction of Europe’s bread basket in the hope that it sufficiently destabilizes Putin, say, years from now? Do I have that right?
     
  15. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Eliminate crop subsidies paying people not to farm
     
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  16. vaxcardinal

    vaxcardinal GC Hall of Fame

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    Wonder what toy comes in the happy meals
     
  17. ATLGATORFAN

    ATLGATORFAN Premium Member

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    Definitely not a precision weapon and most likely dropped from well above manpad range.
     
  18. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    No, the best case scenario is that Putin realizes how badly this is backfiring. Not a likely scenario, but it is the best case.

    Another better case scenario is that it doesn't take years to destabilize Putin's regime. That seems relatively more likely.

    When your adversary is making a mistake, you probably shouldn't be stepping in to stop them. Just make it hurt as much as possible.
     
  19. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Then we have circled back to my point: we are not making it hurt as much as possible.
     
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  20. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    And how could we make it hurt more? Any military intervention allows Putin to spin this to his populace as a patriotic duty rather than an unpopular war of choice that is destroying their economy, lowering the pain to his government.
     
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