The question is due process of law and assets? What crimes are these oligarchs charged with? Will they be sent to the Hague and be tried by the ICC? Do you get a feel good sensation in all of this? Do you believe these oligarchs sat in on Putin's war council? Sanctions of purchases and trade is a highly different matter and even that is subject to a willingness of compliance as evidence in the UN Oil for Food scandal.
Cnn live "Ukraine demands new round of sanctions against Russia From CNN's Niamh Kennedy Ukraine's Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said during a televised address on Saturday that his country wanted stronger sanctions against Russia. "They include, among others, banning the Russians bank Sberbank from SWIFT, closing European ports for Russian ships, closing access of Russia to cryptocurrency and stopping purchases of Russian oil," Kuleba said. Russian oil "smells with Ukrainian blood today," the foreign minister said, adding that "buying it is financing Russian war crimes." He reiterated Ukraine's call on international allies to protect Ukrainian airspace from the "indiscriminate and barbaric bombardment by the Russians" and to provide the country with "combat aircraft and serious air defense, missiles and weapons." "My message to the world is clear. When all European and other leaders at all ceremonies throughout the year, repeat those separate words, 'never again,' they now need to prove with actions that they stand by those words," Kuleba remarked, harking back to the Nazi bombings of European capitals during World War II. "
I didn’t say “zero due process”, i said cut through some of the bullshit (like shell companies and proxies used to hide assets and whatnot). We need to end that. Really we need to do that everywhere, but we ESPECIALLY need to streamline that where the money can be traced to criminal state actors. If we have a “task force” dedicated specifically to these Russians, we can structure it by having judges appointed to make sure the law and due process is followed. It’s more or less doing it expeditiously so they don’t have time to money launder.
Looks like shuttle diplomacy. Israeli PM Bennett spoke with Zelensky, met with Putin in Moscow and headed to Berlin to meet the German chancellor. Israeli PM meets Putin in Moscow, then speaks with Ukraine president by phone
They've been helping Putin for years and profiting from it, pedaling their influence, etc. They're not targeting every single oligarch, just Putin's buddies. Were they on a war council as you call it? Doubtful. Have they helped Putin hide assets, funnel money, etc? I'd bet that's a yes. So no I don't feel bad. At all. Just like if they found Trump was getting money from Putin I'd have zero issues with him making the same list. As to the issues with others refusing to do business, as pointed out that's capitalism & folks can choose to take their business elsewhere. They should pick better friends.
With you putting it that way, I wouldn't doubt that's the point of seizing ASAP. So they can't hide stuff. They can then get their lawyers and break down what's what and ask for what's theirs back, but are unable to hide money for others. What's worse they could funnel money back to Russia to finance weapons to go around sanctions, so makes sense to seize.
I'll go along with that but seizing assets based on suspicion, dislike or worse political purposes should not enter the picture. Make a case with formal charges where a seizure is warranted. We have seen the results of undo seizures by law enforcement in our own nation.
I don't have an issue with anyone refusing to do business with anyone they deem unacceptable. Capitalism works by choice. The entire world has helped hide assets of the wealthy and it's not just oligarchs who launder and pour money into the political apparatchik. These things happen in every form of government.
Please make no mistake. This is no Afghanistan. He may not be advancing, but hi is still inflicting massive damage to cities from afar. NATO is doing what they always do: dither. Putin is about 1/100 on the humanitarian/ barbarian ratio. There is no reason to believe he will stop. Hopefully the sanctions will prevent him from further aggression beyond Ukraine but I doubt it. If it doesn’t, NATO will rue the day that they didn’t light up that 40 mile convoy like topiary lights on a sidewalk. No easy answer here. Putin is playing chicken and so far winning.
Agree. In his case it's likely the oligarchs are the one with that function, though perhaps a full detailed list might show others that maybe don't fall into an "oligarch" category. On the hates to lose money front, oligarchs I'm sure also have ties to the Russian Mafia. One thing they HATE is losing money. How long before they realize Putin is a bad investment & time to get rid of him? Hopefully for Ukraine sooner rather than later.
You think the mafia or any other criminal organization is going to change their criminal ways? Hardly. As for the list you keep referencing that list was hastily put together in my opinion. Yet again a list of people without criminal charges associated. In a world of law and order one would believe that list currently exists.
I agree with what he is saying...the impression I'm getting watching this play out is you can talk the talk of being tough, you can puff your chest, and flex your muscles, and that can look all fine and good in the eye of public perception. Is the goal to win the PR game in the American media and in the polls, or is it to actually help our allies and deter our enemies? Because the two are not the same. One is smoke and mirrors, and the other is not. Buying Russian and Iranian oil is not the answer. And buying Iranian oil is probably just as dangerous if not more dangerous than buying Russian oil. They are trying to get nukes so they can fulfill an Islamic apocalyptic fantasy. Sure lets go ahead and fund them, so they can further pursue their apocalyptic fantasies.
I'm interested in gaming this out to how you feel like Putin is "winning." They can't open their stock market. Their currency has collapsed. Let's assume that they militarily run over Ukraine. What happens next that makes their economy collapsing worth it? They now are in possession of a country with destroyed infrastructure and likely a long term insurrection. What is the ROI on destroying your economy to obtain that?
I don’t know that I want to inject the idea of an imperative per se, but I believe Putin (and at least some Russian citizens) believe this invasion is morally justified. I am a fairly “devil’s advocate” kind of person, but even I can’t make an argument to support this argument, but I think they have don’t it somehow.
Is it quitting time or are the sanctions really working? Pretty loud and boisterous for quitting time
