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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    I like that you qualified on this planet lol. I agree, so I think the A-10 is still very useful, at least for us.
     
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  2. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    except countries asking to join nato and us saying yes is a very different form of “imperialism” than bombing and invading and then controlling your way to empire.
    If Russia doesn’t like the fact that all these countries voluntarily chose the system he derides, come up with a batter one on your side. When your system sucks, that’s your fault not ours.
     
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  3. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Didn't we invade Iraq unilaterally to install a new client government under a flimsy pretext?
     
  4. WC53

    WC53 GC Hall of Fame

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    Old City
    Eating their own…
     
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  5. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    From CNN live...

    "Top general overseeing US nuclear arsenal is "satisfied" with US defensive posture

    From CNN's Ellie Kaufman

    The top general who oversees the US nuclear weapons and nuclear capabilities said Tuesday that he is “satisfied” with the US defensive posture right now, amid the Russian invasion of Ukraine and President Putin’s recent announcement that he has put his country’s deterrence forces on high alert.

    US Strategic Command Admiral Charles Richard made the comments during a House Armed Services committee hearing. Richard participated in the hearing virtually from US Strategic Command headquarters in Omaha, Nebraska. He told lawmakers he stayed in Nebraska to make sure he can “assess and be satisfied in terms of our defensive posture.”

    Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Sasha Baker said the Defense Department is “comfortable with our strategic defensive posture,” echoing Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin’s previous statements."
     
  6. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes, also different from countries asking to join NATO.
     
  7. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    They have both made public statements about Russia and Ukraine
     
  8. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    sure, even if you allow for the difference between tossing out a dictator who had invaded his neighbor and invading a democratically elected government. I was still against that from day 1.

    but that has nothing to do with their argument, they were speaking specifically of NATO.

    “'DSA reaffirms our call for the US to withdraw from NATO and to end the imperialist expansionism that set the stage for this conflict.”
     
  9. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Are they wrong about that? I posted this earlier in the thread, but the architect of our cold war policy (and an anti-communist) made this argument in 1997:

    Opinion | A Fateful Error (Published 1997)

     
  10. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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    Sounds like the same crowd that was calling for unilateral nuke disarmament back in the 80s. smdh
     
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  11. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Pretty sure he was being facetious, but either way.... "American imperialism" is a myth, concocted by lefty murica haters, just bc so many countries want to be like the US, and NOT like any of the places annihilated by your beloved Marxist-Lenninism.
     
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  12. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    From CNN live...oh look more military targets

    "New military strike in Kharkiv hits apartment complex near hospital, videos show

    From CNN's Gianluca Mezzofiore, Katie Polglase and Paul P. Murphy

    A new military strike in Kharkiv, Ukraine, has hit an apartment complex near a hospital, according to videos that have been geolocated and verified by CNN.

    The explosion near the hospital comes hours after a military strike caused significant damage to Kharkiv's regional administration building.

    In one video, a fire rages at a clearly damaged apartment complex, located just across the street from the hospital.

    "The building is gone," someone in the video says.
    In another video, which is an edited series of separate videos outside the apartment complex combined, at least two bodies are seen on the ground in the area surrounding the apartment buidling."
     
  13. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Don't we have a military base /prison / torture facility in Cuba? How did that get there if American empire is a myth? How have troops not left Japan or Germany since WWII if its a myth?
     
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  14. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    The main difference is that we could coax Ukraine to go along with us with soft measures but we couldn't with Saddam so we resorted to war. Russia stayed put when they could coax Ukraine with soft measures to go along with him, but is now resorting to war when he can't.

    As the saying goes, war is just an extension of diplomacy. I'd go one step further and say that war is the result of a failed diplomacy. Putin failed to rein in Ukraine with diplomacy, that's why he had to go to war to achieve his goals.
     
  15. Orange_and_Bluke

    Orange_and_Bluke Premium Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  16. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Gitmo? It's called a contract bubba.

    Of course that means nothing to bully commies, if the other party is weaker.

    Alas for Cuba, Uncle Sam could fart and erase entire nation. So Gitmo rrmains.. because of a contract.

    (... and Japan n Germany per terms of surrender--which is a species of contract, btw).
     
  17. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    Tampa
    That was before their party made their statement. They need to be asked if they agree or disagree with their parties' stance.
     
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  18. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    maybe we made a mistake in allowing NATO expansion, maybe not. But it’s not imperialism when countries have free will and choose to align with you and are feee to leave whenever they want.
    The fact that Russia has a failed model is Russia’s fault not ours. The fact that those countries bordering Russia don’t trust them isn’t our fault it’s the fault of having been invaded (in some case several times) by Russia, nor is Putin’s wild sense of self deluded grandeur our doing.
    Imperialism is a very specific word that implies colonization and control, it was purposely loaded and the exact opposite of NATO.

    And I would say it also won’t be imperialism or our fault when Finland and Sweden join, it will be self preservation against a country that has shown they can’t be trusted.
     
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  19. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    A contract imposed in 1903 after an imperialist war
     
  20. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    We had plenty of follies in Central
    America and the Middle East in the 20th century that weren’t much different from “imperialism”, some of it for no other reason than we basically wanted access to oil and mineral rights and to prevent the U.S.S.R from getting them instead. It had nothing to do with “liberating” those nations or giving them freedom, we didn’t give them that, some of those regimes were quite brutal and corrupt. It was more or less for propping up higher living standards here.

    Albeit, we did it more by financing rebellions and coups by 3rd parties, backing up puppet governments. We had no interest in colonizing these conquests like some of the European nations did before us. So it was more of a pseudo imperialism.

    I don’t really agree with that other poster suggesting having NATO has anything to do with “imperialism”. That’s a purely voluntary alliance, the economic ties with those countries is all over the place so it’s not even about economic policy. It’s purely for common defense.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2022