War in Ukraine

I’d think that people taking something that Z said as accurate is likely not intentional misinformation.Rather it have been either an misunderstanding of the conversation or an attempt to force Erdogan’s hand.

 

You may be coming in way late to this thread without having read it. Saying no troops into Ukraine is not “siding with Biden” for a couple of reasons. First, non-intervention seems to be the consensus of the whole government, not just Biden, not just the Democrats. The major disagreements between the parties seem to be on the degree of economic warfare (fair to discuss), the degree of military aid to provide and how to provide it (again, fair), and on whose fault this all is (criminally stupid by both sides during the middle of this). Second, even those of us in the minority here who support military intervention have almost all said no troops in Ukraine. Speaking for self (but I think the other interventionists on here will agree), I recommend air and naval forces only and only within Ukraine’s territorial airspace and waters. This is for several reasons: we have a distinct advantage in the air and at sea that could turn the balance of the conflict at relatively low risk to our own forces, Ukraine already has an army that is fighting, our available ground troops need to be reinforcing the Baltic states, and to keep the war limited if at all possible.

Your statement about Putin using tactical nukes and blaming us is valid by the way … whether or not we physically intervene. And what then? Is that a red line that should trigger our involvement, or do we again shrug and equivocate?

 

I am going to add what I posted on the Carlson thread to any other poster: It isn’t just about Ukraine. It is about Putin’s state’s ambitions and his history of invading multiple countries. He regrets the fall of the Iron Curtain. At each step and after each invasion, we say it is not in our interest. The Sudetenland wasn’t in our interest. Nor was Poland. Nor was Europe. Until it was made our interest. Putin’s vision is Stalinesque. As Germany was being pushed back in WW2, Stalin diverted to countries so he could re-shape the post WW2 map. Putin’s stated intention is to recreate that map. The policy question is: when do we say, this has gone far enough. Biden drew the line at NATO’s borders. Because you have to stand up to authoritarians. Biden was accused of being a warmonger here for calling out the Russians by a poster who joined in February and then disappeared. Others echoed this. Putin has been defended by Carlson and his ilk. Just like American Nazis supported Hitler in the 1930s. The divisions we see here are eerily similar. So, when do you stand up to a Stalin?

 

What exactly about Russia is so scary other than nukes? They’re getting their asses kicked. The only way they win is because they have numbers

 

That has always been the Russian way. They have inferior equipment but throw mass numbers at their enemies. They take huge casualties.

 

Appreciate the updates you’re finding and sharing. I know we have to take it with a grain and all.
But thanks…

 

Exactly, so why should we be involved in this regional border war?
It's a Ukrainian fight. Sell them weapons, provide intelligence, apply sanctions.

 

There’s lots of misinformation on social media and even MSM since they don’t have the full picture.

 

which we all know is not true and just after one year he is the least popular occupant of the white house in our history

 

Sorry but I have to disagree with the recommendation as all it takes is one mishap regardless of who supplies the forces to do it. I assume it would be the US. We already know that NATO alliances will not intervene with boots on the ground and I would surmise that means air and naval support as well. If that mishap were to occur what would be the position of NATO members? Will they be dragged into a war they clearly do not want or will they say you broke it you fix it alone. Keep in mind that is provided the allies allow for US military intervention from US bases of operation as they could certainly shut that down and plead forgiveness with Russia concerning a tactical error.

Statement by the North Atlantic Council on Russia's attack on Ukraine

Today, we have held consultations under Article 4 of the Washington Treaty. We have decided, in line with our defensive planning to protect all Allies, to take additional steps to further strengthen deterrence and defence across the Alliance. Our measures are and remain preventive, proportionate and non-escalatory.


Our commitment to Article 5 of the Washington Treaty is iron-clad. We stand united to defend each other.​

 

It is not just Russia, the scary part would be other “regional “ players using our involvement or distraction to begin similar skirmishes. I know we said there would be no math, but… ymmv

 

If history is any indication, sanctions, lots of bluster, and maybe some "peacekeeping forces" and that's pretty much it. Hell Russia committed countless war crimes against the Chechens and NATO watched with some strongly worded language. Unless the US makes the first move, the rest of Europe will just watch. Unfortunately, that is the reality. The US will drive the resistance

It's why the Chechens held their own for so long. Despite Russian war crimes and atrocities, a small population was able to make it a war.

 

Nothing, that isn't what NATO is for. The UN will spend some words on it, but not much more. Same as the last however many times Russia has committed war crimes.

 

The number of countries supporting Russia's removal from SWIFT is increasing. Why is it still "being considered" by the US? Biden's reply to this at that presser was that the other sanctions were just as bad or worse, but honestly what is the hold up? Progressive sanctions just give time for them to keep preparing for the sanctions.

Edit - I'm aware the US "put it back on the table". My question is why there isn't a statement just flat out saying "Remove them now"

 

Oil

 

Shame that they did not do that back in 2015.

 

I need to find it but apparently the US only gets 7% of their imported oil from Russia. I can understand other more dependent countries hesitating on this but 7%?

 

We are not the only ones that get oil from Russia. Germany get 34% of their oil supply from Russia.

Russian exports in 2021: WHERE and WHAT