no one is asking to be Duke or Bama football, that's a ridiculously hyperbolic statement, murph. I said this a while ago but I'll say it again, good programs regularly compete for conference titles, occasionally finish ranked in the top 15, and rarely lose as home favorites. getting to the tournament is nice but when you're constantly making it in as a 6-12 range seed with little chance of advancing and getting bounced in the first weekend, it begins to get a little hollow, and it gets a LOT more hollow when none of those other secondary accomplishments that indicate the relative health and strength of the program are happening either. that's where Florida basketball is under coach White and why fans are rightfully saying it's not good enough. Mike White is what he is, which is a nice guy who works extremely hard but is ultimately a mediocre coach. He will never have us last in the league but will never lead the Gators to an SEC championship either. We'll probably make the NCAA tournament most years, but we'll be sweating on the bubble all the way to the end of the season, end up with a high seed and nobody will really expect much success. we'll have preseason Top 10 teams but won't ever finish the season in the top 10. We'll win a game or two we shouldn't each season, and we'll lose several games we shouldn't each season too (usually at home). we'll occasionally play awesome, tough defense with energy and effort, but we'll generally look bad offensively and won't ever really have a cohesive team identity or structure. And we'll be consistently inconsistent, with every step of improvement matched by a step or two back. I like coach White the person, and I like the integrity he brings to his role and to the UF program. But he's not being paid $3 million a year to be a nice guy, and I think it's past time we made a change in the leadership and direction of Gator hoops.
Brent, while you may be speculating and I doubt you will share why you thought he had options last year, what were his options? I don't think he's a bad coach, but I think he's not a good enough recruiter/evaluation of talent. It appears that we only have one PG and I don't think he's very coachable. He has his moments, but reverts back to his instincts too often and does a "what the hell were you thinking" moment. He had that late game, very lazy pass Apple turnover that was costly and CMW talked of us trying to make "homerun" shots. I think that was mostly directed a Appleby. Other players are making dumb mistakes (kicking at an opponent, foul a 3-point shooter with a lead and 30 seconds to go). CMW just hasn't been able to assemble a good team that can execute his style of play. A few of the guys we have this year just aren't basketball smart. CMW also said after last night's loss that there is stuff that needs to be cleaned up. At this stage of the season, there is no cleaning up. The guys revert back to instinct and their instinct is poor.
You're debating a guy who said he didn't value SEC titles or tournaments. He values above all the NCAA tournament and that's fine. That's his opinion. But you cant just discount all the other victories along the way that make up a season. As spurrier used to say, win the SEC and the rest takes care of itself. Now I'm not saying we have to win the SEC but being in contention, getting better not worse at season's end, protecting home court etc gets you the tournament and grows you as a team along the way.
Yeah- I don’t want to go into what or why I thought something related to the speculative part of my post. It was intended to be less about that, than it was about … well, an appeal for respect.
Take away Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and, now, FSU, and we basically have become one of those mid-level ACC teams. We can’t name their coaches or players. No one pays attention to them. They often make it into the NCAA tournament and don’t make it out of the first weekend. They are irrelevant college basketball programs.
If you are a fan of those teams you pay attention good or bad. We just beat FSU why include them. We have more fans at games and more berths In the dance. How many teams go to Elite 8 every year,now with portal teams will change every year even more. Right now we what most teams are I don't think White will be back but if we keep his recruits some coach will have a good team
If I'm SS and I want White to be back because of his extension or you really believe in him, I'm asking some hard questions such as what exactly is the plan at this point going forward. First the thought was the first couple recruiting cycles really hurt White, but once he gets his guys, Florida will be in good hands. He then signs a couple of good classes, the #1 overall Transfer and 2 McDonald's AA'S with KJ, Nembhard and Locke already on the team and the team was a good inconsistent team that was pre-season top 10, but most likely on its way to getting beat in the 1st or 2nd rd of the tournament. Then the thought was Nembhard and Blackshear weren't the right fit for White's style so we'll speed up (Blackshear moves on and AN transfers) and then Florida will be rolling. Granted the KJ injury was brutal, but there was still a gift when 15 seed Oral Roberts beats Ohio St and Florida blows the chance to get into the sweet 16 because White slowed the offense down way too early and let them get back in the game. In truth, win that game and White should get a pass for this year, but they didn't. Then the excuse was we're too young and inexperienced so let's get veteran defensive minded players and then Florida will be great again... but what was the plan concerning these transfers? I mean did he even scout the players he got as transfers or was he like McKissic defensive player of the year in his conference, I want him. Did he put on the tape and think that he's a short guard, not overly explosive and not a true pg. Would this work in the SEC? Next guy he brings in is Felder, but he barely plays. He has so badly misused him this year its not even funny. Wouldn't it be nice to have another big who can post up, help rebound and open up the court by knocking in some long range shots. Jones was a nice take and then Fleming turned out to be pretty good, but certainly not great. White knew Appleby was the only pg on the team, let's Glover go and brings in no other pg. What was the thought process there? Seems like every season he has to tweak the offense and at least portions of every game, it seems like Florida is a street ball team. This year these stretches have been even longer with seemingly no offensive plan other to get it to CC. Double CC and we have no answer. It's really unbelievable how poor this offense looks at times. So what's the plan next year. Got 2 nice looking big men coming in, but does White know what to do with them? I mean Felder is no where to be found and White only seems comfortable playing 1 big at a time. Who's the pg next year? Is Appleby coming back? He's fairly careless with the ball at times for a team that struggles to score. We have a freshman combo guard coming in who looks to be able to play pg, but he's not a top 50 player and might be a learning curve. So what is White's plan next year and how to better capitalize on the transfer market? I get that basketball never draws particularly well, but they at least always had a packed house for big games against ranked teams. That wasn't the case vs Bama or LSU earlier in the year. In fact, both the women's bball team and gymnastics draw better than the men's team. After seeing the changes that Napier convinced the administration to make, granted basketball isn't football, but with the amount of money Florida is getting with their SEC contract, there is no longer any excuse to not make basketball a bigger priority. I'm confident that the right coach can get the administration to make some changes in order to get more people excited about basketball again. If Florida was winning consistently scoring 55-60 points a game because their defense was that good, than people would probably come to games, but when you're up vs Georgia by 2 points at home with a minute left to play, get blown out by Tx So. at home and can't beat the worst Maryland team in a decade on a neutral court something isn't right. Throw in the fact that Tenn, Auburn, Bama, Arkansas and probably LSU have all easily passed us in the SEC, its only going to get worse. The SEC dynamic has changed and we need to change with it or the hole is only going to get worse. Personally, I see little to no plan going forward and White is just throwing darts and hoping it sticks. I'm not behind the scenes but the trajectory of Florida Basketball is not moving in the right direction right now imo.
Jareduf - another excellent retrospective of the situation. Wish it were different. Interesting it's slowly leaking out CMW may want a change himself. Wait and see I guess.
C - JJ/ Gerkek- 20 Lbs Bigger SF- Felder/ Reneau- Good player SG- Reeves/Kennedy PF- Reed 6:10 good player PG- Aberdeen 6'4 think he will improved the PG spot Lane can play 2-3 if he attacks the basket more get a decent shot can be a starter. Appleby -,1-2 Backup at PG/SG There is talent if they all come
nice post Ant. Yeah, I know murph said that a while back - I respect that opinion, but like you said, it seems pretty myopic to me. I think making the Final Four is obviously more valuable than an SEC championship or a top 10 finish, but that doesn't mean those things aren't great achievements to be proud of in their own right. Winning your conference, not having bad home losses, and finishing highly ranked are generally pretty strongly correlated with tournament success and the health of a program in general.
About the only points I can ad to this excellent post are (1) imagine if CC had decided to stay at Michigan or transfer to a school other than Florida. That's how close we were to falling into the bottom tier of the league, and (2) Texas and Oklahoma are on the way, and they are likely to be in the top-tier of the league with the result being that we could end up not being one of the top-10 teams in the league. So we need to do something fast.
Even with your pie in the sky assumptions (which NEVER happen) it's nothing special, and certainly nothing to keep an underperforming coach for. A true Fr PG that's not a PG, 2 centers who are nearly 100 pounds from what they should be, a starting wing that is clearly not MWs guy (Felder) evidenced by the fact he doesn't put him in the game even when he's playing the best of anyone and a true Fr PF.
I read the following in The Athletic last week and it sums up how I feel about the state of the program right now. Nothing personal against White. He's coached with class and given his all, but he's rowing against the stream and going nowhere..... "aggressively average" is a brilliant description....
I mean… we are a perennial round of 32 minimum team. So if the Sweet 16 is your benchmark, we are right on the cusp of that. It’s not like we are leagues away from your stated desire. We are not always on the bubble, either. We’re usually a lock. Billy Donovan had many bubble years also. It’s not a new phenomenon taking place since Coach White’s hiring.
I never said he doesn’t deserve criticism. I criticize him, myself. I don’t think he should be replaced. That is the difference.
simple: good man, hard worker, but just above average coach. We are Florida! We are the top university in the state and one of the best in the country. Our athlete teams should be the same.
Well the round of 32 is also his ceiling more or less. But I don’t go off of NCAA tournament results exclusively, it’s far too small a sample set to judge a coach on. In White’s case, I think it’s 10 total games, and he’s 6-4. With no conference titles. What I want is a team capable of making deep runs and every once in a while it will happen. That’s why I said a top 15-20 type team. That team would make the sweet 16 a good percent of the time, but also have the capability for a deeper run every few years too. Right now it’s a situation one win is a success or expectation based on our seed. We have been a top 4 seed exactly once in his time here, and that was largely with a Billy’s players. But I’ve made my points here, as I have said before I respect the fact that you are willing to stand up to the mob, I just don’t agree with you on this at all.
The difference between R32 and S16 is ENORMOUS. That's like me saying Tiger Woods is only one or two shots better than me on each hole.
Mike White won’t go to a “lower level program”. There are a bunch of schools in the top basketball conferences that would jump to hire a coach who consistently has winning seasons and gets his team into the NCAA Tournament along with doing things the right way. Despite what you and some fans feel about Mike White, he and his family are very well-respected in the college athletics world. That is fact.
