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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Why am I not surprised? MJT is what the Russians used to refer to as a "useful idiot". The same description also applies to Tucker Carlson. Gotta give Vladimir Putin a lot of credit. The former KGB colonel has not only become the leader of Russia he has demonstrated that he is able to manipulate high profile stars in the US media as well as a number of American politicians. Kind of amazing the way the right in the US has evolved from warning the Americans about the evil of the Soviet Union to being tools of the Vladimir Putin, the absolute leader of the the 21st Century successor to the former Soviet Union. Always keep in mind that Vladimir Putin referred to the demise of the Soviet Union as the greatest geopolitical disaster of the 20th Century and that his possible invasion of Ukraine is a step in undoing what happened to Russia/the Soviet Union in the '90s.
     
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  2. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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  3. AndyGator

    AndyGator VIP Member

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  4. dadx4

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    Obviously Putin doesn't give a flip about Biden's "sanctions."
     
  5. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

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    We’ll said. It is amazing how reactionary so many Americans have become. I dread a war.
     
  6. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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  7. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Biden just got humiliated by the German chancellor, Olaf "Sergeant" Sholz. Biden wants the Germans to commit to abandoning the pipeline to Russian gas in the event Russia invades Ukraine, and the Germans just told him to pound sand. Seems like Biden would have obtained a commitment from the Sergeant before he went public with his plan.

    Gas pipeline proves to be a sticking point in Biden and new German chancellor's show of unity - CNNPolitics

    To paraphrase Sergeant Sholz's position on the pipeline, President Joe Biden and Germany's leader sought to put on a united front Monday at the White House, but one key sticking point appeared to remain despite their pledges of unity: The future of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline.

    At the White House and in an interview on CNN's "The Lead with Jake Tapper," German Chancellor Olaf Scholz revealed a distinct gap between himself and his American counterpart on the massive pipeline. During a news conference after an Oval Office meeting, Biden was explicit the project wouldn't go forward if Russia invades Ukraine. It's the stance he and US officials have taken for weeks, and has been a key point of discussion with the new Scholz government, according to senior administration officials.

    But Scholz himself refused to even name the project during the news conference, and declined to commit to ending the pipeline if an invasion moves ahead -- a stance causing problems for his foreign minister during a visit to Ukraine. In the interview with CNN, Scholz repeated his vow to remain aligned with the US, though again wouldn't clarify his intentions for the Nord Stream project.
    [/quote]

    To paraphrase Sergeant Sholz's position on the pipeline, "I know NOTHING!" Once again, Colonel Klink is left looking like an ass.
     
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  8. sweetchinmusic

    sweetchinmusic Freshman

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    It's clear the Biden administration is using the Russian troop buildup to remind everyone daily that the Russians (Putin) are very, very bad people. I've been getting the same news feed for like two months on my phone now. 'Russia has 100,000 troops on Ukrainian border; invasion imminent.' Ok, we got it the first few times. Beyond that, you're just stoking the tension more by continuously bringing it up daily and we all know why they're doing it. Russia = Trump. How often are we reminded about the atrocities happening in China currently? You know, the concentration camps with millions in captivity? We might hear about it once a month if we're lucky. But Biden has made sure the State Dept talks about Russian aggression daily. Will they invade? Maybe. Call me when they do, because this starts to feel more and more like 2002 all over again. Here's an exchange between respected AP reporter Matt Lee and the State Dept spokesman Ned Price last week. Note the snarkiness in the Price's tone in answering the questions. There's clearly an agenda.

     
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  9. sweetchinmusic

    sweetchinmusic Freshman

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    Biden has zero credibility on handling Russia and is an embarrassment to our country. Who kept Nord Stream 2 shut down? (gasp). Trump. Who opened it back up? Without gas sales, Russia is essentially neutered. Biden threw them a bone (why?) and lifted the sanctions. And yes, it's understood Biden did this to make friends with Germany. That's working out real well, isn't it?
     
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  10. sweetchinmusic

    sweetchinmusic Freshman

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    I just wanted to remind everyone that Kabul will not fall.
     
  11. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    I don't think either side should be fanning the flames or beating the war drum, whether by appealing to dislike of Putin/Trump or as a way to denounce Biden for not being tough enough. But given Russia's actions in Georgia and Crimea, there is a track record here and a reason to be suspicious of Russia's claim that it is simply engaging in military exercises.
     
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  12. sweetchinmusic

    sweetchinmusic Freshman

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    You're right. There is a track record and no doubt, Putin is a thug. This I agree with. So, why then do you lift sanctions on a massive gas pipeline project that will allow the Russians to bypass Ukraine and sell billions of dollars of gas more easily, thus allowing them more resources to fund their already revamped military? Biden did that, not Trump. And whatever sanctions Obama/Biden hit Russia with in 2014 obviously did nothing to dissuade Russia from annexing Crimea and the Donbass region. They're still there. Biden has a track record as well of lifting sanctions on authoritarian and oppressive regimes. Again, there's a reason why they beat the drum about Russia daily and mostly ignore China and Iran. It's because they've successfully linked Trump to Russia in the minds of many Americans and the easiest way to remind everyone of the evils of Trump is to talk about Putin pulling a Hitler every day in the MSM.

    Another point I take issue with is the "severe consequences" threat over and over again and the only specific threat Biden has mentioned is shutting down the Nord Stream 2 pipeline that HE lifted the sanctions on. The Russians don't want to annex all of Ukraine. It would be too costly. They simply want to destabilize them enough to keep NATO from ever thinking it would be a good idea to accept Ukraine's membership. Biden has already slipped up and stated a "minor incursion" wouldn't be viewed the same way as a full-scale invasion (overrunning Kiev). So Putin will probably take a small section of land connecting Donbass and Crimea and call it a day. That's actually his most likely preferred option to begin with.
     
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  13. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Looks like the invasion might be imminent. Putin has a $100 million German super-yacht that has been in Germany for repairs / upgrades. It recently left Germany before the repairs were complete. The yacht could be seized in Germany if Russia was hit with sanctions for any reason.

    Putin's superyacht abruptly left Germany amid sanction warnings over Russia-Ukraine tensions, report says

    Biden might have to call in the repo men to seize the yacht . . .
     
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  14. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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  15. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Interesting article about senior retired general warning Putin not to invade Ukraine

    A Former Russian General Is Warning Putin Not to Invade Ukraine. That Might Be a Big Deal. (msn.com)

    The most eyebrow-raising of these dissents is an open letter by retired General-Colonel Leonid Ivashov posted on the website of the All-Russian Officers’ Assembly, which he chairs. In it, he rejects Putin’s claim that NATO poses a threat to Russia’s vital interests, warns that invading Ukraine “will forever make Russians and Ukrainians mortal enemies,” and calls on Putin to step down. He concludes, “We, Russia’s officers, demand that the President of the Russian Federation reject the criminal policy of provoking a war in which Russia would find itself alone against the united forces of the West.

    Ivashov is no pacifist. Alexander Golts, a longtime reporter for the Russian military newspaper Red Star, now an editor at Daily Journal, described him in a recent column as “deeply rooted in the Russian establishment.” As an active-duty officer in the 1990s (his rank corresponds to the U.S. Army’s three-star general), Ivashov led the attempt to block NATO troops from entering Kosovo. A hard-core Russian nationalist, he was in charge of Moscow’s military relations with the former Soviet republics in the years following the breakup of the USSR.

    Golts, who has known Ivashov for 25 years, wrote that when he first read the open letter, he thought it must be “some kind of fake.” Only this past Tuesday, when Ivashov was interviewed for 36 minutes on Echo of Moscow, an independent radio station, did he realize it was authentic.

    Golts was also struck that, unlike most criticisms of Putin, even from less venerated sources, Ivashov’s appeal—which was posted on Jan. 31—hasn’t been taken down. Nor has anyone issued a rebuttal. Nor has any member of Ivashov’s organization dissociated himself from the denunciation.

    Anders Aslund, a Swedish economist and longtime Russia-watcher who is now a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, said that, despite its grand title, the All-Russian Officers’ Assembly is small. “The important thing,” Aslund told me, “is that Ivashov is allowed to do this.” The fact that Putin hasn’t taken the post down suggests to Aslund that “there is some opposition to Putin’s policy from within the hard-core military,” perhaps from within the Security Council, which consists of senior officials in the ministry of defense, ministry of interior, foreign intelligence service, and other agencies. If someone powerful wasn’t protecting Ivashov, Aslund said, Putin would have quashed his letter by now.
     
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  16. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    No, the NATO countries have their own say in a European War. Escalation is on their soil. And, you are right, there is no appetite in this country to go to war over Ukraine. Nor is there in Europe.
     
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  17. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    To paraphrase Sergeant Sholz's position on the pipeline, "I know NOTHING!" Once again, Colonel Klink is left looking like an ass.[/QUOTE]
    The Germans told Trump the same thing. It isn’t a humiliation of Biden. They can’t turn off the spigot immediately now. Trump told them this I’m his first year. And they didn’t listen then. We are three generations past WW2 now. It informs their behavior to some extentS
     
  18. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    The US shuttered our embassy in Kyiv today.
     
  19. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    To paraphrase Sergeant Sholz's position on the pipeline, "I know NOTHING!" Once again, Colonel Klink is left looking like an ass.[/QUOTE]
    For those interested in the pipeline, here is a history. And, part of the issue with the pipeline is that distrust Trump created in Germany as to whether the US would be reliable. So, Germany was not going to shift to relying on the Us for gas. That hasn’t gone away; in their view, a shift back to Trump or DeSantis or one of the extreme right politicians would put them back in the same place. The July deal Biden agreed to was an effort to mollify an ally on the face of the damage done.
    Germany blames Trump in pursuit of Nord Stream 2 pipeline
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2022
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  20. chemgator

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    Quashed his letter? The guy is lucky to still be breathing. Especially in Moscow. Russian bosses have killed "troublemakers" in London and other cities before (they even tried to kill a pope). This guy must have the support of a lot of generals to make those kinds of statements in public. He's only a three-star general, so the 4-star generals must be in his corner. Putin must be afraid to bump him off because there might be a military coup shortly afterwards.
     
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