Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

If you want to take these boosters…

Go for it!

The data is showing us how this disease attacks. Who it attacks more severely. And how well these drugs are working. If you think the new drug is a benefit for you. I fully support you taking it.

 

CDC came out with a statement Wed Jan 19th. Here's an article that doesn't require a subscription.

Basically, best protection according to the study was vaccinated and previously infected, 2nd best was unvaccinated and previously infected, 3rd place went to vaccinated and no previous infection.

CDC: Prior Covid Infection Offered More Protection Against Delta Than Vaccines — But Both Together Did Best

From the article: "In the first full week of October, vaccinated New Yorkers with a prior Covid-19 case were 19.8 times less likely to catch the virus than their unvaccinated and uninfected peers, whereas people who were unvaccinated but previously infected were 14.7 times less likely, and vaccinated but uninfected New Yorkers were just 4.5 times less likely."

This is from the CDC for data they looked at, not some random study.

I've been saying all along that, as in Israel, unvaccinated people with a previous infection should be held in the same status, especially with job security, as vaccinated but no previous infection. It seems that previous infection was even more potent than unvaccinated alone.

Apparently the unvaccinated previous infection group performed at a rate 3x better than vaccinated with no previous infection.

 

Considering that Omicron is now the dominant strain and is considerably more transmissible than Delta, I would keep this in mind.
Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses | Imperial News | Imperial College London

 

The UK data show that in every month since Jan 2021, the age-adjusted (and time adjusted) death rate for unvaccinated was at least 4.6x times higher than for vaccinated and if the rates are higher, by definition the percentages are going to be comparatively higher as well.

Keep in mind, the ONS rate measures are of person-years, not simply incidents per 100k population. Person-years accounts for both the # of new incidences per month & the time frame (each month within the year) that the person was part of the study.

Vaccines are still doing extremely well in preventing hospitalizations and deaths. You keep saying they're ineffective without making any distinction regarding severe sickness and death vs positive tests, the latter being much less effective...but still better than not being vaxxed.

 

Biggest isn't always best. I acknowledge the results of the Israeli study, but just because it's the largest, doesn't mean it's infallible. Especially when multiple other studies have significantly different results. The Israeli study suffers from selection bias on two fronts.

First, the study only looked at the Pfizer vaccine. If the other vaccines were tested, can anyone be certain the results would have been the same? No. It's likely the J&J and AZ vaccines would have fared worse, but possible the Moderna would have fared better. We just don't know, unless someone runs the data for the other vaccines.

Second, the subjects of the Israeli study were homogenous. The lack of genetic diversity can certainly make a difference. Can anyone be certain that if the subjects were more genetically diverse, the outcome would have been the same? No. And for proof, here's a recent study that found there is a genetic component when it comes to some people losing taste and smell when infected with COVID, while others do not lose their taste/smell. If someone didn't know this, and wanted to study how many people lose taste/smell when infected with COVID, if the experiment included a homogenous population, the results would be skewed one way or another depending on whether the group was more likely or less likely to lose smell/taste. A more diverse group would eliminate the selection bias.

As I've been saying for months, a better question to ask is why several studies looking at NI vs vaccine have a wide variety of results? Is it vaccine use? Genetic makeup of people? Variant? Other factors? A combination of factors? The scientifically curious following the data think these answers are important. The scientifically ignorant just looks at one, big study, says it's big, and declares that the truth, despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

Also the Israel study using different testing and reporting standards for the vaccinated than the unvaccinated, in the study they even say that this likely overstates the effectiveness of natural immunity.

 

What is your take on the numbers from post 33664 - which is from the data you linked? Do you understand what it says?

 

You ignored and argued against it for months. You were wrong. Thanks for admitting it. Admitting it is the first step. Don't try to make excuses. It's just making you look more foolish.

 

LOL. Man, the Vax everyone crew is out in full effect. There are a dozen+ studies showing natural immunity is superior than just the vaccines. Why you and few others argue it is super funny to see. It's like knowing the score of the game and still arguing about who's going to win. It's over. Zero debate. NI is vastly superior to just the vaccine.

 

What is the point and relevance of this debate?

 

Moral of the story--get vaccinated even if previously infected.

Fascinating findings. That "just" 4.5x less likely is ntl pretty massive in its own right.

Graphed, it looks like this (from the CDC study):

 

I thought the post I was replying to was discussing limitations of the Israeli study. The fact that they measured the two groups differently, in a way that would systematically bias the results in favor of natural immunity, would be another important limitation of the Israeli study to be aware of when evaluating their results.

 

At this point there is no good evidence to claim these new drugs are effective at keeping people out of the hospital. For multiple reasons.

One the omicron variant is less severe by all accounts. And the vast majority of vaccinated people who start to show real symptoms are going to get the monoclonal antibodies. Shoot they are probably going to get them whether they are needed or not in a lot of cases.

If you want to get a drug geared to deal with the spike protein of the alpha variant…by all means.

 

In fairness that's not completely accurate.
Increased risk of clotting with vaccines is a real issue. Not recommended if you have clotting disorder or hx of DVT.s

 

Moral of the story, if you're going to give someone a 'don't get fired from your job' "pass" because you are vaccinated and never covid infected, you should first be giving someone a 'don't get fired from your job' "pass" if you are unvaccinated but you've been previously infected with covid.

 

For those with common sense, we knew this already

 

Dude he's wrong on most things

 

I'm pretty sure once all studies are done accurately this will also change, and those who received multiple jabs will lucky not have some form of reaction down the road. Unlike some fellow posters, I hope I'm wrong on this. I truly wouldn't wish any harm to any of you

 

Long term side effects from any vaccination is rare. Long term side effects from a vaccine that contains one strand of mRNA (also found in the COVID genome), plus organic compounds we know are benign and only used to keep the mRNA from breaking down is highly unlikely to happen. Why would there be long term side effects from a shot that invokes an immune response, and all the elements in the vaccine leave the body within half a day?

All vaccines contain mRNA. It's how they work. Vaccine invokes an immune response in the body. And what triggers an immune response? mRNA. Previous vaccines used mRNA in attenuated viruses (variants that don't cause people to be sick but still cause immune response). Current vaccine just isolates the needed mRNA and discards the need to isolate an attenuated variant.

Vaccine history has shown most side effects occur within a few weeks of injection. Long term side effects don't happen on any large scale, if at all. There's no reason to think the current mRNA vaccines will be any different.

 

About time. Florida has been there outside a few looney municipalities…

“Now, almost two years later, Spain is preparing to adopt a different COVID-19 playbook. With one of Europe’s highest vaccination rates and its most pandemic-battered economies, the government is laying the groundwork to treat the next infection surge not as an emergency but an illness that is here to stay. Similar steps are under consideration in neighboring Portugal and in Britain.”

Europe considers new COVID-19 strategy: Accepting the virus