Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

AGAIN, VACCINATED PEOPLE ARE LESS LIKELY TO SPREAD COVID THAN UNVACCINATED! From the article:

The good news is that data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) shows while COVID-19 infections do occur in fully vaccinated people, these instances appear to be exceptionally rare.[emphasis added]

“We do not have conclusive proof. But more and more studies and real-world evidence points to fully vaccinated people, who are not immunocompromised, are less likely to transmit the virus if they become infected,” said Brian Laird, PharmD, manager of Pharmacy Operations at OSF HealthCare Heart of Mary Medical Center in Urbana, Illinois.

“Very few things in medicine have a zero percent chance of happening. But if the person is fully vaccinated and not immunocompromised for any reasons, there is less of a reason to be concerned about transmitting the virus if they become infected,” Brian said.
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So, if fully vaccinated cases are exceptionally rare, wouldn't that be lower than just reinfection, which is just rare? Of course, a statement without actual values does really add much to a scientific discussion.

Not enough proof for you? How about this article, with the headline:
Fact check: Vaccines protect against contracting, spreading COVID-19

From this article:

In clinical trials, all three vaccines authorized in the U.S. were found to be safe and effective at preventing severe COVID-19 cases. Since then, public health officials have acknowledged the shots aren't 100% effective at preventing infection – and research suggests immunity wanes over time.

But that doesn't mean the COVID-19 vaccines are worthless. Experts and public health officials say they do protect people from getting infected and spreading the virus.

"This is false information," Akiko Iwasaki, a professor of immunobiology and molecular, cellular and developmental biology at Yale University, said in an email. "Vaccines provide significant protection from 'getting it' – infection – and 'spreading it' – transmission – even against the delta variant." [emphasis added]
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Hmmm? Who to believe when it comes to vaccines helping to prevent the spread of COVID? Some random guy on a message board who once claimed COVID won't kill more than the average flu? Or a Professor of Immunobiology and Molecular, Cellular and Developmental Biology at Yale? Such a tough choice!

 

I assume that is because of the dramatic drop off as covid spread exhausted itself.

 

They have acknowledged they are not interested in answering important information. That is derelict of duty. The cdc has done so much damage that will bear out in future years imo. I hope I am wrong. But when we see vaccination rates decrease for drugs that have long term track records for safety and efficacy...it will be on the cdc. Again I hope I am wrong.

And that does not account for the reality they should have been honest from the beginning and seeking information on something as important as natural immunity.

 

I'd take exception to the "exceptionally rare" comment . I don't think current evidence supports that.

 

While natural immunity is more protective than a vaccination it is still not infallible. Individuals have had previous Covid-19 infections can still be reinfected. Data appears to indicate that previously infected individuals who have been vaccinated are less likely to be reinfected than previously infected individuals who have not been vaccinated.
Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19...

 

Rare and exceptionally rare are both subjective terms. Q once found a quote saying reinfections were rare. And another that said breakthrough cases were expected, and has been using these statements to show the vaccines don't work. All subjective terms, with no numbers behind them. How can anyone say something expected means it will happen more than something that is rare without actual values is beyond me. It's extremely misleading. Like I said before Halley's comet is expected to come around every 75 years. But it happens less than a blue moon, which usually occurs about once every 2 to 3 years.

 

I cited the rationale behind the vaccine mandate. The facts and reasoning for OSHA’s rule. In this instance, promotion of the public welfare. You cited @WESGATORS opinion. What you could do is cite the contrary view reflected by DeSantis’ new law today and argue that the right to privacy to refuse a vaccine, or this vaccine, exceeds the public health goals. So, perhaps we can promote all sorts of privacy rights. Like freedom from small pox, polo, measles, and all similar such kinds of vaccines. It is exactly for sake moral equation.

 

Well then there is loads of good news for you.

 

Past 6 months the efficacy against infection declines. It's just the nature of long term immunity. There was a study recently that showed that the vaccinated were about as likely to spread to family members as unvaccinated (which of course assumes the vaxxed got the disease)

Hell my kid had a break through infection. They are common.

 

I don’t disagree. They are somewhat common. But you are still SIX TIMES more likely to get covid if you’re unvaxed. And Q pretends like it does nothing to mitigate the spread.

 

I think the 6 times is kind of a composite average. If you are freshly vaxed or boostered you are probably 15 times less likely than unvaccinated. If beyond 6 months you may be only 2 times less likely Average them all out and you probably get 6 times.

I'm not advocating for anything Q says. But I think sometimes the pro vax side over states the case.

 

Breakthrough cases seem common because they get news coverage. There is also nearly 200 million Americans fully vaccinated, so even at .1% breakthrough, that's 200,000 people. And breakthrough cases are higher than that.

But not that much higher per week. Scroll down to the number of breakthroughs by vaccine, and even J&J is less than .2% a week. And that vaccine was approved with a 70% efficacy rate. The mRNA vaccines do perform a little better, which is expected, as their trials had a 90% efficacy rate, give or take.

With an average of about 70,000 new cases a day, the majority come from the unvaccinated, even though there are more vaccinated than unvaccinated. Vaccine immunity does wane, but booster up, and protection resets. As more people booster up and more kids get fully vaxxed, we are likely to see less cases overall.

 

You are now playing the same game as antivaxxers. They are often saying how if you are healthy and blah blah blah your chance of XXXX is only (insert some really small percent)

Saying something is a small percent per week is pretty meaningless. Multiply that by 52 or 104 and it's not so small anymore.

 

That's true. And as they say, we don't know what we don't know. Does vaccine immunity wane for all? Or will some keep enough immunity meaning they week never get sick, which would mean there's a cap on breakthrough cases. How much will boosters help? Questions that will only be answered in time.

Meanwhile, the other part of the NY Times article is death rates, vaccinated versus unvaxxed. Talk about uncommon. For the vaccinated, death rates below 80 years old is very low. And about 80, the vaccinated have a much higher survival rate. The unvaxxed also see a spike starting around 50 years old. And as someone very close to 50, if I need a trip to Walgreens twice a year for 20 minutes to get a booster, and it all but guarantees survival if I get COVID, that's a win in my opinion.

 

Hopefully I've demonstrated in this thread I'm am totally pro vaccine, including mandates. If everyone is vaxxed the situation gets a lot better. The disease will continue to spread through infections, but much less, and a lot less will be hospitalized and die. It would probably start to look like the flu.

No vaccine will give permanent protection agsinst a disease that incubates in 4 days. Beyond some point antibodies wane and long term defenses kick in and infections will slip through. But the vaccine may very well prompt the body to have long term immunity against severe disease.

These vaccines are some of the most remarkable ever made. People don't realize that because the nature of this disease compared to historical diseases and vaccines. It's unlikely that any vaccine can cause very long term infection protection against covid, because that's not how the human body works.

 

That's fine, but it's still an opinion. You have an opinion that you feel is justified. I have an opinion that I feel is justified. No point in trying to compete in this so long as you believe only one of us is applying an opinion.

I'll say it again, my interest in this has nothing to do with privacy rights. You won't find a bigger anti-HIPAA person that myself. Not that I don't think folks should have the option to privatize some of their health information, but the wide presumptuous blanket is absurd and over-bearing. Again, my opinion.

Small pox? I'm not that old. Anyway, the others all have opt-outs and consideration given for proof-positive tests. I'm pre-varicella requirement, but we did get that for our kids (whatever our pediatrician recommends). I think they have had most of the others as well (not small pox).

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

Here's another opinion...

Biden administration suspends enforcement of business vaccine mandate to comply with court order

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

I am confident ever single person’s anecdotal evidence is that they likely do not know a single person (maybe one) who has had a true reinfection. And at the same time they know multiple people who have had
Covid fully vaccinated.

Now maybe a doctor would be different. But they would still know exponentially more people who are full unvaccinated that got Covid verse a handful of reinfections.

One is rare and the other is not in comparison.

 

Also notice how all the fauci talk about herd immunity went away quietly.

 

It's funny that because of covid, you think people are going to start exercising and watching what they eat. Cardiovascular disease in the US has been the top killer since forever but now the science deniers are going to hang their hat on exercise as prevention?
Look at an obesity map of the US. Strong trend of obesity-anti vax-uneducated-pro trump. You need to head down to Mississippi and see if you can bend that curve.

I have always been in pretty good shape, but I am in great shape now (at 58). I exercise and eat right for my physical and mental well being. I got vaccinated and take precautions around others because I am not a self centered D-bag.