Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

Sure.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/del...ective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html

My bad. It's 39%, not 50%. Oops.

 

The vaccine is not leaky. The antibody response in all vaccines and all natural immunity fades over time and gives way to long term defenses. The degree of reinfection of a disease depends on whether the disease incubates before long term defenses kick in which is 3-5 days. There is no Covid vaccine or flu vaccine that will ever prevent all long term reinfections. But they do provide longer term protection against severe illness.

Why is your anti Covid vax stance so rigid that you can’t acknowledge how the human body works?

 

All vaccines are new at some point, and all are "leaky" by your definition of 100% perfection. Please tell us the heinous long-term side-effects of the dozen vaccines you've received in the past.
Don't take chicken virus vaccines and don't take worm medicine either....... unless you have parasites. Don't take HCQ even for malaria. there are now better drugs. Don't complain about variants if you don't support full vaccination. Try not to be you. I suppose.

 

Could you point me to the part where it says 6 weeks? I'm not seeing it.

 

You have to add the 2 weeks that Pfizer says doesn't count immediately after vaccination. So 6 weeks from start of when Pfizer says to count the vaccine for efficacy.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114228

"These findings indicate that immunity against the delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 waned in all age groups a few months after receipt of the second dose of vaccine."

 

I read his link and I came to this conclusion - there are two sources of “leak”

1. To the extent a vaccine is not a perfect match for the infection strain the infection still incubates and spreads, even though the severity is probably not as bad

2. The antibody response of a vaccine eventually will fade, and give way to long term defenses which take 3-5 days to kick in, and fast incubating viruses like flu and Covid incubate before long term defenses kick in.

The article is describing #1. #1 has not happened with Covid because the original vaccine remains highly effective against the variants. There may be a very small amount (a few percent) that gets through. It’s not to say that future variants may become resistant to the vaccine. But that will happen with natural immunity also. If you have natural immunity to A, when B or C comes around your natural immunity won’t be 100% against infection, but your long term defenses will provide some protection against severe infection.

It is my understanding that the mRNA vaccines are less likely to experience the above due to they way they are created- they will provide a broader response to variants.

#2 is what is happening with Covid. The anti body response eventually fades and disease incubates faster than long term immunity reacts leading to infection but long term immunity kicks in and knocks it back. That will happen with any rapidly incubating disease like Covid or flu. That has nothing to do with the vaccine. The vaccine can’t change how long term immunity works.

All of those supposedly non leaky historical vaccines are due to the nature of the disease. The disease incubates slower than long term immunity kicks in, so infection never (or rarely) happens.

vaccines don’t stay in your body forever. To describe them as leaky because of the way long term defense works is just stupid.

 

I’ve got a question, and I may be incorrect in my understanding. If a person develops myocarditis from their immune systems response to the vaccine which is not the real, live virus, isn’t it highly likely they would also develop the same myocarditis if not worse we’re they to have to fight off a higher viral load for a longer duration of time?

 

Yeah, we know that immunity wanes after immunization, but where's the part where it says it efficacy decreases to 50% at 6 weeks. That was the claim you made.

 

I posted it. You don't like what I posted. That's on you. All adults should be getting the vaccine. No reason not to in my view. My only argument is healthy children shouldn't be vaxxed.

 

From the article:

 

Yes but it doesn’t say anything about 50% efficacy at 6 weeks. It references rate ratios. Those were around 1.7. So at peak immunity if there was say 93% efficacy then at 6 weeks that would be about 88% efficacy. That’s a far cry from 50%.

It was consistent with prior findings:

Our findings are in line with findings from the randomized trial of the BNT162b2 vaccine, which showed a reduction in vaccine efficacy against symptomatic infection from 96% in the first 2 months after vaccination to 84% at 4 to 7 months after vaccination, when averaged over all age groups combined.9

 

That’s about 5 months not 6 weeks.

 

Where does it say 5 months.

 

That doesn't jive with the Israeli delta data. You are using older data.

 

The Israel data was for patients in June and July. Israeli's started receiving the vaccine in January.

 

One thing to consider in the Israeli data is that they didn't actually test non-vaccinated participants, they relied on non-vaccinated participants getting themselves tested. Which means that the actual prevelance of covid cases in the non-vaccinated cohort is higher than their data show, leading to a misleading comparison of how effective the vaccine is. This difference in testing among the two groups will make the vaccine look less effective than it really is.

 

They started losing efficacy almost immediately. I posted the data. Go read it.

 

This is from their findings:

"These findings indicate that immunity against the delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 waned in all age groups a few months after receipt of the second dose of vaccine."

A few months. Which is 8 weeks. Which is 6 weeks after the 2 weeks that Pfizer requires before being considered vaccinated. Not sure why you are focusing on the fact the vaccines wane. Everyone but staunch covid nuts know this. And it happens quickly. Still, all adults should get the vaccine and a booster if they don't have natural immunity. Healthy kids don't need anything. Be better to mandate the flu vaccine for kids before even thinking of mandating the covid vaccine. One is fda approved and actually causes healthy kids to end up hospitalized and die. The other luckily doesn't.

 

I will take the change of subject as acknowledgement that l_boy was correct.

 

8 weeks isn't even 2 months, much less "a few." Nice try though.