Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

Doctors must be honest with parents about unknown risks of COVID-19 emergency vaccine

Just a reminder that we don't need to be pushy when it comes to the kids. The article specifically addresses the 5-11 year old population...

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

Because he is advancing a right wing agenda that the vaccines don’t work or don’t work “as promised.” You are referencing science; he is repeating simplistic talking points. You will never reach someone who condemns a preventative and defines it as a therapy. As experimental. He has essentially advocated for disease spread treated by the monoclonal antibodies as a better alternative to vaccination. Why do you think he argues that people get sick in life? Of course, you can make the same argument about small pox. Also. I might add, the monoclonals are also authorized for emergency use. And use synthetic antibodies. So his argument is that people shouldn’t be forced to take the vaccines, but should rush out to get an experimental treatment after they get sick. He cannot answer questions that are core to his assertions: what would the result be if the country was open as it is and has been if we didn’t have vaccines and almost 200 million vaccinated on top of those who have “natural immunity.” It is not hard to project. Take Delta at its peak, look at the effect in the unvaccinated A few months back, and use an exponential growth factor for larger community spread. And bear in mind that monoclonals were available when Delta hit. Just very expensive. And, of course, not unlimited in supply. You are taking to a wall. It is pointless to engage because when you can’t agree to discuss scientific assessment, it doesn’t matter.

 

Mentioned it before but if you're exposed to covid you can get the monoclonal antibodies as well and do not have to be positive. Also, a half dose booster has been approved for 28 days post initial treatment. Just some fyi since the clinics have slowed to a crawl and may not be here long

 

I'm eagerly awaiting the results of the pfizer in vitro vaccine trials, should be eye opening.

 

And each person should be able to make decisions for themselves when it comes to dealing with this pandemic. While I would disagree. I would have much more respect for the position of thinking it is okay to force someone to take a new drug if at the same time that position carried over to forcing people to lose weight. Forcing people to not smoke. Etc. End of the day. Those who are vaccinated have the protection they desire and are willing to take on the potential long term issues for the potential therapeutic benefit these drugs provide. Those who are not vaccinated have decided the potential unknown long term issues are not worth the potential therapeutic benefit these drugs provide or they already have better protection with natural immunity and just don't want to force their body into action.

 

Feel better?

 

I mean...you might be the biggest fearmonger on this thread. There is absolutely no way to take this statement other than that.
Roughly 14% of American's have gotten Covid over an almost 2 year run. That includes the period when we knew very little and did very little. That was before the unvaccinated were surrounded by vaccinated people.

Yet you claim that 100% of unvaxed will get it in the next 12-18 months???

C'mon man. That is nonsense.

If that's the case, we will be in good shape because that will get us to full herd immunity.

 

When almost everyone is vaccinated then the virus will only hit the vaccinated. It will however be a lower and less severe number than it would have been overall had no one got vaccinated. If literally everyone wore a seatbelt, then all car deaths would be to people wearing seatbelts, but it would not mean seatbelts were not protecting the majority still.

 

That was when we were locked down. With an R0 (the measure of velocity in epidemiology) of 6+ or whatever it is with Delta and a fully opened economy, the exponential math says a helluva lot more than 14% of the unvaccinated will end up getting it through the course of a full year. With asymptomatic, I’ve always assumed you could just about double the cases vs reported. Eventually it will approach 100% unless the R0 math changes to something less than exponential (of course it will never be the full 100% due to isolated areas or people that are fortunate to “miss” a local outbreak that would have given it to them, and obviously going forward the vaccinated population also dampens the real world spread, but with zero vaccinations and full open economy … I.e. going full Dr. Death policy… you could have approached 100% spread). The original model on that was something like 2.2 million U.S. deaths, that means we were roughly 1/3 there.

 

Covid study finds some 28 million extra years of life lost in 2020, with U.S. male life expectancy badly hit (msn.com)

More than 28 million extra years of human life were lost in 2020, a year marked by the global spread of the coronavirus, according to a study released Wednesday that further underscored the immense human toll that the pandemic has wrought.

The international study, published in the BMJ journal, examined changes to life expectancy in 37 upper-middle to high-income countries where researchers said reliable data was available. The study, led by an Oxford University public health researcher, also considered years of life lost, a metric that measures the degree of premature mortality among the dead, by comparing the ages of the deceased to their life expectancies.

The authors said the measure was more precise in calculating the impact of the pandemic than, for instance, just looking at excess deaths, a metric that does not distinguish between the death of a 17-year-old and that of a 70-year-old. The researchers used life expectancy between 2005 and 2019 as a benchmark for their study.

“Our results strongly justify a more nuanced estimation of the lives lost,” the authors wrote. “More than 222 million years of life were lost in 2020, which is 28.1 million … years of life lost more than expected.”

 

Pretty good article on why most parents should wait to get the vaccine for their kids. I'm more than willing to let other parents let their kids be the guinea pigs.

Doctors must be honest with parents about unknown risks of COVID-19 emergency vaccine

 

I get that, but that isn't what AxCat is saying. He is saying going forward all kids will get this in 12-18 months if they aren't vaxed. That just isn't close to correct.

 

And how long is this the new norm? There is a sense that this will all be over soon.

 

To an extremely large extent, people do have a right to make those decisions for themselves. What makes an infectious disease pandemic different is that the virus is transmitted among humans almost always unknowingly because we can't see who has it or not and that changes the equation. Thus a person's choice not to get vaccinated can have severe implications for those whom they don't know. The way to arrest the unknowing spread of disease is to vaccinate everyone to the extent possible.

 

Delta spreads as fast as chickenpox, and as this article states, unless you live off the grid, vaccinated or not, you will be exposed to COVID. For those of us old enough to remember, think about how fast chickenpox would spread through a school. Now, not everyone got it because there are always kids who had older siblings who caught the disease before, and they already had chickenpox before they entered school. COVID, every kid is starting from pretty much the same starting point, unless they have already caught it.

We also have studies from places like the UK that show kids are the biggest drivers of COVID spread. It's estimated that somewhere between 50% to 75% of all kids in the UK have been exposed to COVID. Remember, the UK was late to the lockdown party and instead, tried to reach herd immunity through natural infection first. And that was during a time before Delta was the main variant in the country. Spread today with no vaccines and no mitigation measures would be even faster and wider.

Last, there's the study that the unvaccinated is likely to catch COVID every 16 months. That's because the belief is natural immunity wanes somewhere between 6 and 12 months, and with Delta being so virulent, again, unless you live in a cave off the grid, exposure is inevitable.

I stand by my statement that kids, as long as schools, camps, and other activities remain open, are likely to be infected with COVID in the next 12 - 18 months, if they haven't already gotten the virus.

 

*IF* the R0 remains 6, that might not be far off. It’s just math, with an exponent ^6 it approaches 100% pretty damn fast. My suspicion is kids in schools is a category that have already been exposed waaaayyy more than the 14%, probably already a factor of 2x or 3x. It’s just that they are largely asymptomatic and hardly anyone is bothering testing at this point unless tied to a severe outbreak or a severe illness/death (or your job, or some other factor, makes you need testing).

 

If you are vaccinated you are protected. You do not need to worry about the unvaccinated as we see these are about as leaky of a "vaccine" as you can have. If you want a potential therapeutic. They are there for you. If you want to navigate the virus without new drugs. Carry on.

Stop with the mandate nonsense and let people make decisions for themselves. As we see these drugs do not slow the spread. And if someone has a risk profile where they are more concerned about he potential of getting Covid than the potential long term unknowns from the drugs...then they should take the drug.

Can we just admit that herd immunity is likely never going to happen and we are headed to endemic status. Hopefully that is wrong. But these drugs are not going to be the reason why. Natural Immunity (vaccinated and unvaccinated) will be...

 

You need a vaccine that works. Not a leaky new drug that likely is the reason we had such a surge with delta. A lot of those allergies and colds from the vaccinated were covid positive people. Now these drugs do provide a potential therapeutic effect. Each person can risk/benefit if that is worth it to them. How many could we have saved if we focused more on the monoclonal antibodies the way things are looking now. But we can't change what has happened. Booster up.

 

The vaccine works, and you are full of excrement. The vaccinated are significantly less likely to get COVID, less likely to spread the disease, and significantly less likely to have a severe case. The vaccine is no more "leaky" than the polio vaccine was 70 years ago.

Again, I post these charts. If the vaccine wasn't working, how can you explain the results?



The cases from the unvaxxed is several times greater than the cases from the vaccinated in all age groups. Period.

 

Good to know you are protected and do not need to worry about forcing people to take the drug. Booster up.

More importantly stand for freedom and against these mandates.