Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

From your link:

A recent conversation with a venture-capitalist friend left him especially puzzled. The investor was bullish that "his odds of acquiring COVID are relatively small, and of dying of COVID are infinitesimally small," Schwartz said.

"My comment to him was: 'That's an all-in bet,'" the physician added. "If you lose that bet, you could die."

 

I won't speak for NC, but I try to distinguish b/t anti-vax, vax hesitant, and more general indifference. And although I can accept that you're not anti-vax, you were wrong in your conclusion based on some reported numbers and others were right in pointing it out.

It's understandable why you thought vaxxing wasn't working based on the art--most of the deaths were vaxxed people--but that was bc most Israelis are vaxxed. You didn't consider the massive drop in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths from vaxxing, thus lacking in important context.

For some perspective, I tried to point out a recent Israeli study that was suggestive of the pfizer vax losing effectiveness over time, but that should not be interpreted that vaxxing doesn't work. It means we might need to get boosters to maintain high levels of protection. WTC, we can't draw hard conclusions from the top level numbers reported in the article you provided or from the above study.

 

Sadly, I think we are going to have to see far more people die, famlies destroyed and greater societal disruption before fear surpasses ignorance for a larger group of Americans.

I fear it will happen this fall in places like Florida and Texas where ignorance rules.

 

I think you’re probably right. But I’ll add that I fear the media will highlight these stories from red states.
I’m sure sad stories from the unvaccinated would likely come from all states.

 

The virus owns the libbies, the righties and everyone in between.

 

I'm sure you're right on the final point, but the vast majority of negative outcomes are currently in red states where vax rates are low. FL is somewhat of an exception, with high hospitalizations/cases/deaths but a mediocre vax rate. The worst vax states are AL, AR, TN, LA, GA, MS, MO, OK (not in order).

 

Bear in mind that there are a significant number of people in FLORIDA at any one time from elsewhere. Young people on vacation who are not as careful as they might be elsewhere. And it is the third most populous state in the country. So even with a 50% bad rate, there are a lot of opportunities for the virus to spread to unvaxxed.

 

Nice straw man. I’m laughing at the claims.

 

@flgator2:

Here is science on immunity for previously infected versus immunity on previously infected and vaccinated.

So, now there is evidence supporting vaccination for increased protection after infection.

Coronavirus Disease 2019

In today’s MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus. These data further indicate that COVID-19 vaccines offer better protection than natural immunity alone and that vaccines, even after prior infection, help prevent reinfections.

The study of hundreds of Kentucky residents with previous infections through June 2021 found that those who were unvaccinated had 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with those who were fully vaccinated. The findings suggest that among people who have had COVID-19 previously, getting fully vaccinated provides additional protection against reinfection.

Additionally, a second publication from MMWR shows vaccines prevented COVID-19 related hospitalizations among the highest risk age groups. As cases, hospitalizations, and deaths rise, the data in today’s MMWR reinforce that COVID-19 vaccines are the best way to prevent COVID-19.

 

59.6% of Israeli citizens are vaccinated. US is 50.6% fully vaccinated.

Regardless…there are real questions and concerns about legitimate data.

When you have a PHE release data on the delta variant in June showing a real concern with the percent dying who had received the vaccine (note I am only pointing out that this was real information released by the PHE and not trying to put it as some sort of see the vaccine does not work).

Now we see the PHE report that 34.9% of those hospitalized with delta are fully vaccinated.

In England, hundreds of vaccinated people hospitalised with Delta

Then in July we see a report out of Israel showing the a large percentage of the vaccinated in the hospital and dying.

Yet in the United States we hear reports of almost everyone (I think fairly most reports are 97% or more but definitely in the high 90% range) are unvaccinated.

Something does not add up if you ask me. Maybe the US experimental vaccine is superior? I don’t know. But when the reporting makes no sense. Concerns should go up. Especially for an experimental drug for a disease that is not that dangerous to most. Now I will concede Americans have more to worry about as we are an obese country and that is one of the demographics this terrible virus seems to target hard. But for the healthy…

 

Another brief article that was discussed on TWIV. The topic was breakthrough infections from the Delta variant of those vaccinated (with mRNA vaccines) vs those who were non-vaccinated. This is the "duh, no kidding study" but, it had to be done to prove it.

The research showed that at the time of infection, PCR values were similar between vaccinated and non-vaccinated at the time of diagnosis. However, in subsequent days, the viral load (though guessing they really mean PCR values) in the vaccinated dropped significantly faster than those unvaccinated, and there was earlier boosting of antibodies as measured serologically. Though, the antibody levels were lower than those previously measured in those infected by the ancestral strain.

In short, people recovered much quicker (on average) if they were vaccinated.

One note, as always, please note anything posted on MedRxiv is a Pre-Print and has not been peer reviewed.

Virological and serological kinetics of SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant vaccine-breakthrough infections: a multi-center cohort study

 

you are misinterpreting the numbers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/19/vaccine-skeptics-zero-israel-again-some-reason/

It’s true that most new cases are coming from the vaccinated community, but that’s in large part because of how relatively big that community is in Israel. The latest numbers show that 85 percent of Israeli adults are vaccinated, meaning there are more than five times as many of them as unvaccinated people.

The more vaccinated a population, the more we’ll hear of the vaccinated getting infected. For example, say there’s a community that’s 100% vaccinated. If there’s transmission, we know breakthrough cases will happen. So, by definition, 100% of outbreak cases will be among the vaccinated. It will just be 100% out of a smaller number.

Israel is averaging about 120 weekly hospital admissions, which is down from a peak of nearly 2,000 in January. So while cases are less than one-tenth of what they were then, hospitalizations are about one-sixteenth. And admissions to the intensive care unit are about one-twentieth, according to data collected by the University of Oxford.

All told, Israeli government data show the Pfizer vaccine is indeed significantly less effective at preventing coronavirus cases of the delta variant (64 percent) than it was for previous variants (95 percent). It’s also significantly less effective at preventing symptomatic cases (64 percent vs. 97 percent). But it performs much more similarly when it comes to preventing serious cases and hospitalization (93 percent vs. 97.5 percent).

 

To drive the point home:






https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-a...m/public/NJDPAJZ3ENHBRNSEBIDSS5KFXQ.PNG&w=916






https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-a...m/public/7G65QKGXVBHPVJ3K32NKU6DY54.PNG&w=916

 

80% of those eligible (not my originally posted 85%) in Israel are vaccinated. Yes, that is different than what I said earlier, I left out the eligible part. My mistake.

The rest is fun with numbers from the Israeli report. This is what I continue to focus on. This is also in-line with what family living Israel have told us.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/19/vaccine-skeptics-zero-israel-again-some-reason/

As for the UK, isn't that the country that decided everyone should get one dose of the vaccine.

Finally, good to see a post from you again. It was quite a while without you being active unless I just missed a whole bunch.

 

Anti-vaxxers point to Israel, but Israel is going to the third shot.

 

Has a flu ever in the history of the world broke out in the middle of the Summer? Did that ever happen before? Right now, in the middle of Summer their is a breakout of Covid-19... why? What this and then you'll know the real facts and why as I said, after getting mild symptom in the past and got over it quickly, that I personally choose not to get the vaccine. This doctor explains why me personally (not suggesting anyone else do this) will not take the vaccine. What this video.

Just remember that this doctor would take the vaccine, and he would indeed give it to his children too.

 

It's worse than ignorance, it is pride. Ignorance can be overcome with information, overcoming that you can't tell me what to do pride is a much more difficult challenge

 

this video is making the rounds on facebook too. more misinformation cleverly packaged with dr credentials to boot

 

Had a relative (rip) that knew Randy from their young Libertarian days. I think that means they drank…. And yes, allegedly he was a tool back then too