Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

Vaccinations are not a guarantee against positive tests or even getting sick. They can, however, prevent people from becoming seriously ill. You mentioned NC State, but look at the Yankees. Of the nine vaxxed people who tested positive, one got mildly sick and only for two days.

 

Vaccinated vs. unvaccinated on Royal Caribbean's first US cruise (thepointsguy.com)

good read on all the differences in how the cruise line treated people

Additionally — following the first departure of Adventure of the Seas two weeks ago when two teenagers tested positive and were flown home at Royal Caribbean’s expense — unvaccinated cruisers had to purchase special travel insurance. This insurance would cover the cost of repatriation on a private charter flight and/or medical care if they tested positive during the sailing.
....................
Those with the vaccine were able to go anywhere onboard. And areas specially allotted for passengers who had their shots had no mask-wearing rules. Vaccinated-only areas included the spa, casino, fitness center (during most operating hours), Izumi sushi and hibachi, Chef’s Table and the lower decks of the main dining room and theater.

I noticed that the areas reserved for vaccinated passengers were rarely, if ever, crowded. During one performance, I went to the theater’s upper level (where anyone, including unvaccinated passengers, was able to sit) to see what it was like. While there, I noticed most of the passengers in this area were parents with young children.

 

Interesting observations.

Not that we can draw any hard inference, but it does seem like being unvaccinated is synonymous with irresponsible adulting.

 

Perhaps they're willing to play Russian roulette.
Almost All U.S. COVID-19 Deaths Now in the Unvaccinated

 

Iraeli study concludes that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine shows diminished efficacy (~ 64%) in preventing infection against the Delta variant. However, protection against severe disease and hospitalization remain extremely high.

Covid-19: Treatments, Cures, and Vaccines | Page 58 | Swamp Gas Forums

 

Shit. My wife isn't going to like that at all.

 

What is frustrating is that more than a year and a half into this, and we still do not get Cycle Threshold values from our testing so many questions go unanswered.

Frankly, if I have 1000 RNA strands up my nose.....I don't care. For these studies we need to know if the Ct values meet the threshold of a) making someone infected b) making someone who is infected sick and c) making someone infectious (ie, can spread the disease). Even with the Delta variant and Delta Varian Plus circulating in California I am stil sure things are as dire as some want to make it seem.

The real tragedy in the United States continues to be the extremely large numbers of uninformed and misinformed who will not get vaccinated.

 

Data showing the risk parameters for the vaccine for children show they shouldn't get the vaccine at this time unless they have a previous condition.



https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/second-opinions/93340?trw=no

1. The CDC did not consider alternative strategies. The decision facing the CDC is not whether or not COVID-19 vaccination in children is generally a good idea. Most immediately, it is whether kids ages 12 to 15 should continue to receive second doses. A range of vaccination strategies are possible in children. Believing that COVID-19 vaccines can be valuable even for healthy children is different from thinking we cannot afford to proceed cautiously. Above all, it does not mean CDC should feel a need to stay the course with second doses whose marginal risks in teens appear likely to exceed their marginal benefits. Manufacturers could also reconsider the dose given to young people under 25 years old. Children's vaccination trials currently underway use lower doses than the adult studies; perhaps a lower or intermediate dose of vaccine could preserve most of the anti-COVID-19 benefit while avoiding the myocarditis risk. The CDC did not explore this option. And notably, dose optimization is an area of drug development for which there is a lot of room for improvement.
2. The CDC is not accounting for COVID-19 risk factors. Vaccination strategies for young people should be responsive to risk factors that place children at elevated risk of severe COVID-19 disease. While it is true that some cases of multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C) are idiosyncratic -- occur even in healthy kids -- the bulk of adolescent hospitalizations are among individuals with pre-existing risk factors. In contrast, the risk of myocarditis is entirely idiosyncratic and can strike anyone, including healthy adolescents at very low risk of severe disease. Vaccinating those at high COVID-19 risk, but not all young people, is a strategy that must be considered when balancing tradeoffs, as the harms versus benefits to healthy children are different than for kids with risk factors.
3. The CDC is not factoring in natural immunity. It is hard to believe that the risk benefit balance favors a 15-year-old young man who has recovered from COVID-19, and who has detectable antibodies, getting two doses of an mRNA vaccine. Such an individual is accepting a non-negligible risk of myocarditis, with limited upside in terms of decreased risk of severe infection. If the CDC recommends vaccination for these children, it is imperative they weigh benefits versus harms in precisely this population, which, to date, they have not presented.

 

I haven't gotten the vax yet, but I find this reasoning odd. I had a friend die wearing a seatbelt, but I still buckle up every time.

 

Tourists?

 

The article misses two very important points. One, the rate of myocarditis in kids and young adults was higher in those who tested positive for COVID-19 versus the rate from the vaccine. As this article states, 2.3% of college athletes that tested positive for COVID also had myocarditis. Compare that to vaccination rates of 1 in 3,000 to 1 in 6,000, depending on the study. If we are to rely on natural immunity in kids, then we are likely subjecting them to a higher percentage of contracting myocarditis, which is what we are trying to avoid with vaccination caution! In this case, the disease is much worse than the "cure." (Cure is in quotes because a vaccine is not really a cure)

Also, there is nary a mention in your article about long haul COVID effects. Some studies show as many as 1 in 4 people with COVID develop long haul symptoms, though most have the number closer to 10% to 15%. But as this article states, long haul can be real bad for teens and kids. Again, compare this to the vaccine, where there are no long haul symptoms, and the chances of developing myocarditis from the vaccine is smaller than developing it if you get the virus.

As my first link states, the majority of vaccine related myocarditis cases are extremely minor, require nothing but monitoring, and symptoms go away within days. And to date, there has only been 1 reported death from the vaccine that I can find, and that was a 16-year old boy in the Philippines, who was found to be taking a large cocktail of supplements and steroids.

Add it all up and the vaccine is the better option. And to say we should rely on natural immunity for teens is silly, especially if we want to avoid them getting myocarditis. The rate of the disease in those with COVID is significantly higher than the rate from the vaccine. Plus, the virus also comes with long haul symptoms and a chance for death; two things those vaccinated don't have to worry about.

 

Nope. Re-read the article. Good effort though.

 

Re-read the link again. Mentions of other COVID symptoms in kids other than MIS-C? Zero. Unless I missed it...again. Nothing about long haul symptoms, which my first link said effects up to 25% of kids, and this link says 15% to 20% of kids in the US.

Additionally, from your link, "Revised estimates from Israel found the rate of myocarditis to be to one in 3,000 to one in 6,000 among males ages 16 to 24." Then there's this link, which confirms in addition to the heart issues MIS-C from COVID, there have also been cases of myocarditis without MIS-C from patients infected by COVID.

COVID-19 can affect the heart, too — not only as part of MIS-C, a multisystem inflammatory complication of COVID-19 seen in children, but also just from the infection itself. COVID-19 can cause heart damage, including myocarditis.
​

We also know that viruses are the cause of most cases of myocarditis. Especially in kids. Most cases are mild, and the previous link showed a study in college athletes, average age of 20, 3% of them who had tested positive from COVID had myocarditis. Even if this study is off by a factor of 10, that's still 10 times more cases of myocarditis from viral infection than the highest rate (1 in 3000), from the vaccine.

Maybe you should be the one looking over all the material? Except for maybe math errors, I'm confident that when you factor everything, like myocarditis rates of infection versus rate of vaccination, plus other symptoms of COVID, like long haul, the vaccine is the better option.

 

Too funny. You made absolutely no sense with what you tried to say. Better stick to focusing on the next scary variant. It’s ok, most know you’re wrong. Would be easier if you just admit kids shouldn’t be vaccinated and move on. I know you won’t so that’s the best part for me.

 

Why in the world would they compare cases of Myocarditis with hospitalizations due to Covid? It would seem you would want to compare case-case or hospitalization-hospitalization, if your goal was actually to analyze the topic that is.

 

I'll simplify it. For kids:

Chance of developing myocarditis from contracting COVID-19 virus > Chance of developing myocarditis from COVID vaccine.

If the goal is to reduce the number of kids who get myocarditis, then relying on natural immunity won't work. Because more kids are likely to get myocarditis this way. Your link attempts to deny this by only looking at MIS-C cases in kids, but ignores the fact that there have been cases of kids who got myocarditis from COVID without being diagnosed with MIS-C. Again, I reference the study of 3% of college aged athletes, average age 20, who had myocarditis from COVID, with no mention of MIS-C.

And again, your link makes zero mention of any other symptom kids may have from contracting COVID. Such as long haul symptoms. If we are to rely on natural immunity, then you are subjecting a number of kids to long haul. 10% to 25%, depending on which of my links you want to use.

Anyone else having issues understanding that if we rely on natural immunity that it will likely cause more myocarditis cases and a will subject a significant number of kids to endure long haul symptoms? In contrast, the vaccine still subject zero kids to long haul, and cause at worst, 1 in 3000 kids to myocarditis, with the majority of cases being extremely mild?

 

The vaccine is very liberating.

 

There are people who shouldn’t get the vaccine. I heard a story this week about an older man whose organs were shutting down from the immune reaction when he had COVID. Barely survived. Time passed and His doctors said it was OK for him to get the shot. He died shortly thereafter. Someone whose immune system already nearly killed him from the disease should have avoided the vaccine. Because the vaccine triggers the same immune reaction. And, I don’t think it is so clear that kids should get the shot. Every new disease is “novel” for kids, they don’t have as many comorbidities and they have robust immune systems. That is a reason why pneumonia shots are for adults, and not recommended for kids generally. The push for kids to get vaccinated is all about herd immunity. But, we would be closer to herd immunity and mild disease here if adults would do it and there would be less of a push for kids. Critically, where there is testing of vaccinated people, there are positive results but asymptomatic people. Which is what you want with a disease. So infections do not make people sick and to virtually eliminate severe illness.

 

This sounds like regurgitated talking points. Good effort. But rational people will see right thru it. Keep making up crap. It seems to be swaying people. No, really, i was on the fence about getting my kids vaccinated but those "true" facts you just stated made me switch to want to get my kids vaccinated today! LOL.

 

So we have data saying kids being hospitalized for anything due to Covid is somewhere in the 50 per 100k cases. And we also have data from the CDC saying about 200 per 100k kids who get the vaccine are hospitalized. I'm not great at math but that seems like we don't want to vaccinate kids unless they have underlying conditions.