There are more rankings than ESPN. Jeriah and Taliyah (one or the other) is nationally ranked and Rimdal is an international player. She won't be reflected there. She doesn't even register as a commitment, and she is a highly regarded prospect. Prospects Nation has Cam's classes as 31, 26, and 22... this year is not done obviously. Those are without Floor and Alberte factored in... not to mention the transfer of Zippy who ESPN had as a 5 star (as well as Jordyn and Lavender) or Kiki doesn't get reflected in her class either. Pretty sure ESPN never ranked Kristina either. Anyone who says Cam hasn't recruited well is being disingenuous or lazy when it comes to recruiting information. There is not one service that does all the rankings and most of the services miss half the commitments, even some domestic... but especially international. If you follow the sport then you know that. To my recollection, UF has NEVER had 3 5 stars on roster. This year will be a first, and Alberte probably would be 5 star worthy if she was in the US. He most certainly has recruited Top 25 talent. The record will be decided in time. He is here this year at the least. You can believe he won't succeed, and that's fine. He may or may not, but there is no doubt he has brought in the talent to turn it around.
Based on what? His top recruit, period, is #31. I'lll give him his first year, but the last three he's only had two ranked in each one. in '19, the two were #53 and #79. In '20, it was #31 and #123. In '21, it's #109 and #95. For for those three years, his top recruit averaged #60. His second top recruits averaged #104. How does that equate to being top 25 talent? Now, to be fair, his classes are higher slightly ranked than Butler. Yet Butler won more. Weird.
[QUOTE="msa3, post: 12493768, member: 21170" Now, to be fair, his classes are higher slightly ranked than Butler. Yet Butler won more. Weird.[/QUOTE] “There’s a signpost up ahead. Next stop? The Twilight Zone”
Already stated, and you know this. The avg. Is about 26th but... Where is Kiki reflected? Floor? Alberte? Zippy? Kristina? Faith? Manu? Hint: They aren't and you know that. That is 7 out of 14 players who most services don't even reflect in a class ranking. 6 of the other 7 are reflected and nationally ranked players. Amanda had 10 years and failed. You are being disingenuous or lazy. Go root for Clemson. Get back to us in a couple of years and see how that works out for you.
Amanda is having it pretty rough at Clemson, having the same issues, so yes if you enjoy her style of play and coaching they need the fans right now. I would say if we dont make a decent jump this year then SS may start thinking about things. But our talent level is much better then when Cam arrived. Been an uphill battle. But like East said we have a good core group with at least 3 5 stars. Hell I would think if they had to rerank Kiki she would be a 5 star also. Alberte right on the edge. Jeriah was state player of the year in LA and that state is a very good womens basketball state. The twins are a HUGE upgrade over Emily and Cyndy who we lost up front. If Manu is allowed back into the country that is a boost also. We will be a Strong 10 deep this year maybe more if we dont get the injury bug. Should be a 20 win season
Definitely think this is a big year for him one way or the other. Obviously he can't have a losing season. I'll be disappointed if we don't get to 20 wins. I think that's a pretty fair benchmark at this point. He deserved to build his team, his way. His first class is the senior class this year so it's show time.
I'm being disingenuous? Your entire point is you like Newbauer. Your secondary point is you didn't like Butler. That's it. You've got nothing else. No successes to back up your faith. No reason to be optimistic beyond the usual fan's inflated sense of your team's worth. Any fan of any program anywhere can look at their players and see them as stars in the making. And maybe they are. There is no one in the top 25 envious of UF's roster. Since you keep bringing it up and doubting my fandom -- and continually telling me to cheer for another team because I disagree with you -- let me be clear about this. I'm not supporting Butler. I mention Butler because she was Newbauer's predecessor. And, by any definition, she was more successful. As was peck. As was Ross. But my criticism of Newbauer is not about loyalty to Butler or loyalty to anyone beyond the program. Can you say the same? Because from the outside, you appear to be loyal to Newbauer regardless of what he's done or not done to the program or the brand. You say Newbauer deserved to build his team his way. Don't you know how that sounds? That in order to pursue his vision, it was okay that he screw the experiences of four senior classes of girls who committed to UF. We are the Florida Gators, not the Cam Newbauers. Had his way brought success, then you could make the argument. But there is no metric that says he has been successful. Not one. Not win-loss record. Not SEC record. Not post-season record. Not his recruiting record. Not the school's standing within the state. Not his inroads with the top programs in the country. Not the reputation of UF as an up and comer. Nothing. And yet you call me disingenuous for pointing it out. Because Cam deserves to be able to do what Cam wants to do, no matter how many UF players have their experience diminished in the process. If I were giving the benefit of the doubt, I'd say you were just trying to make the best of a bad situation, and that as someone who has followed the program closely, you understand the hole Newbauer has put the program in, yet you also understand Stricklin is not going to make a change. That I could understand, but ti continually defend the indefensible, and to repeatedly hold Newbauer to a significantly lesser standard than any other coach on campus, that makes no sense. It's one thing to hope things will get better; it's an entirely different one to insist we all accept your faith as fact.
Nice comeback. Except that you’ve repeatedly said the program was a mess when Butler left. in this very thread you said she had 10 years and failed, even though she’s had a better record at every 4-year span of her career than Newbauer’s had. So yeah, I’m sure you had her back. But like I said, Butler’s not the point. Newbauer is. And since you simply can’t make any argument for him as a success, you keep stooping to quips and false accusations. Like I said earlier, nice comeback.
I supported her for 6-7 years... those who have followed the program can vouch. She didn't get it done sadly. You haven't moved on apparently.
So, just to be clear, you supported her for 6 or 7 years, and then decided she didn't get it done. You were one of those die-hards who backed her while she was not only making the postseason, but winning at least a game each year? When she was averaging 20 wins and making the NCAA Second Round three times? I admire your dedication. But then in her eighth she had a losing season, and that was enough for you. And you didn't reconsider when she followed it with 22-8? Or maybe the 13-17 was just too big a sin to forgive as you say she sadly didn't get it done. That's kinda odd because Newbauer's had two seasons that were worse than that, and even that 13-17 season was 5-11 in the SEC, while Newbauer's had three 3-13 SEC seasons. But if you lost confidence in her, you lost confidence in her. I mean, Stricklin lost confidence at 15-15, so I guess you're in good company. Or you know, company. And that's fine. We lose faith in coaches all the time who have a losing season. God knows we've been willing to run off football coaches who lose more than we think they should. But what i don't understand is why that standard doesn't apply to everyone. That's my point. Not whether Butler was good or deserved to be fired, but what Newbauer has done to keep his job. if you want to debate the merits of Butler I'm willing, but you're not even doing that, you're just telling me to root for Clemson when I say Newbauer's not good enough to be UF's coach, assigning fandom only to those who back the current guy. I don't accept that premise. if you do, then for the three years after you lost faith in Butler, I hope you told everyone you were cheering for whoever you thought would do a better job. Butler's not the issue, no matter how hard you want to make it that. The issue, again, is Newbauer. This isn't a Newbauer versus Butler debate. It's a Newbauer versus competence debate. A Newbauer versus the established standard debate. I don't know why you're unwilling to have that one, but you clearly aren't.
I gave Butler several years of support to build the program. Any coach deserves that. She lost me when she kept losing too many of her best players to transfer. Also, too many years she didn't have nearly enough depth as she hardly ever used most of her scholarship limit and we recruited teams that were just too small. Those three factors led to her inconsistency, IMO. I like Amanda, and would love to see her succeed at Clemson personally, even if I doubt she will. Cam's record vs a standard doesn't quite work. Year 1 was a transition year after a losing season where several left and/or didn't show up as freshmen, which is normal. Year 2 was rough, but he basically cleared the roster. Some agree with it, some don't but definitely a tough year. Year 3 saw a marked improvement and we would have been in the WNIT had the season not been cut short. Year 4 was a step back by a game, but given Jordyn recovering from an ACL, Lavendar missing the last several games, Brynn missing most of the first half of the season, and Covid taking away some we would have been favored to win... yeah, I am perfectly fine with the progression. I think we were an 18-20 win team in a normal year. I think 20 needs to be the MINIMUM standard this season to show progress. Ultimately, I am here to support the program. Seen it fail tonlive up to UF standards for far too long. Have followed closely since the Ross era. As for Cam, I am on record as saying he needs to win this season. Anything less than 20 wins, and I think he is fair game. I would love to know a number that would satisfy you this season. I do hope this year everyone decides to post when the girls win a game or a weekly honor, etc.... and not just show up to be negative after a loss. Regardless of who supports whom as coach, the girls deserve that support from the fans. This "debate" is over. Not wasting any more time on this. Cam will succeed this year or he won't, but he will be the coach and we'll see soon enough.
A great coach adapts his system to the players and talent he has on the team. A Don Shula that could win with a great running team under Csonka/Kiick/Morris and then win with a Marino passing attack as well. Mullen has that as well. Wins with running QBs and then alters his offense for Trask. You like to see coaches that analyze the talent on their team and can be flexible in their system to maximize the talent of their current team. Oddly, Grantham is incapable of this on the same coaching staff. Can Coach Cam do the same on his ladies basketball team? Coach White has the same challenges in his guard dominated 3 point shooting approach, but at least Mike has a winning record and has made the NCAA tournament. Jury still out for Cam, but beginning to think he is average coach at best. Belmont has done well since Cam left, so not missing him. Hope he turns the corner this year.
.500 in the SEC. Three wins in the SEC tourney. One win in the NCAAs. I don't much care how they do against Presbyterian or Tarleton State, but win as many SEC games as you lose, that's improvement. Shows competence. Make some noise in the tournaments.
Belmont is a top tier program in a below avg league. They have a lot of advantages over their opponents, we dont have that here. He did adapt to what talent he had, without that the first few years we would have be blown out way more then we did. We have went from a slow paced outside shooting team the first two years to a team that is willing to push play and press and try to use its athletes to space the floor and drive to basket. Have you even watched us play the last 4 years? I really think it is silly when people just want to cast their opinions without really knowing what is going on. We will be fully healthy this year(knock on wood) last year if Covid does not take games away from us and Lav and Jordyn not being hurt we easily win 20 games. We would have been on NCAA bubble. I look forward to us making a push this year. I dont think Cam is hot seat this year, but if we do not make a jump this year then yeah he will be then on the hot seat.
I like his positive approach to the program and players and he's attracting talent. I think he just he needs that one dominant player the team can revolve around.
