Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

Denmark pulled the J&J Covid Vaccine. Their Health Authority said the benefits of the vaccine don't outweigh the risks. The fact is we fast tracked these vaccines and there is a lot we don't know about them at this point.

 

I think the right thing to do with kids is to not vaccinate them under 18 until there is full FDA approval. Then take the doses for the kids and send to countries that desperately need them(Like India now and I'm sure others later). The risk to kids is so minimal from Covid and frankly we don't know the risks of the vaccine and a 2,200 person drug trial for 2-3 months isn't enough to find out if there are adverse affects. Not only would this be the prudent thing to do but also won't waste the vaccines because there will be tens of thousands of parents that will not get their kids the covid vaccine until it is FDA approved.

 

Kids under 18 make up about 22% of the US population. If all adults got vaccinated, we would reach herd immunity. But we know that won't happen.

The blood clot issue with the J&J vaccine is about 1 in 5 million in the US. Similar to numbers with no vaccine. The J&J shot is the riskiest out of the three in use in the US, and Pfizer plus Moderna are safer, and more effective.

Until we reach herd immunity, there is risk. Even for those vaccinated. That's why we still need masks and social distancing. This virus is a killer. More Americans dead in 18 months than any war we've ever fought in, save the Civil War. The goal should be eradicate the virus as much as possible, and make the risk of contracting COVID as close to zero as possible.

If we don't reach herd immunity, people, even those vaccinated, will get sick, and some will die. Others will be long haulers. All preventable if we all get vaccinated. Or, you can be selfish, and probably be OK yourself, even if you are part of the vector chain of disease that causes someone to die who didn't have to.

 

Nothing selfish about people not getting a vaccine for something that isn't fully FDA approved. Some people want to take the risk. That's on them. The rest of the country can return to normal. Children shouldn't be vaccinated until the FDA fully approves the vaccine. Not before then.

 

The Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines rest on 30 years of research. Once the couple working for Pfizer had the full DNA map of COVID-19, it took them days to isolate the section of RNA needed to spark an immune response and start creating a vaccine.

Millions of people have been vaccinated. The majority are like me. A few, minor side effects like drowsiness, gone in 24 hours. The serious side effects are few and far between.

The CDC is now finishing up trials for kids 12-15, and expected to approve the use of Pfizer for this group.

We can either trust the science and scientists, get everyone vaccinated, and reach herd immunity. Or, we can not reach herd immunity, which means COVID-19 risk remains for the entire population. And we delay getting back to normal, continue with mask wearing, and are potentially looking at round or rounds of boosters in the future, as vaccine immunity may wane like natural immunity.

The choice to me is clear. Reach herd immunity and put the pandemic behind us. Do that, and the risk for everyone comes close to zero. Delay herd immunity, and we are all still at risk.

 

That's pretty interesting. Thanks.

 

Trials for kids is at 2,200 or so for the vaccine. You think that is enough data? I sure don't. No clue how the drug will affect puberty. Do you realize how long a typical drug takes to come to market? Why there are phases of trials? Because there are serious risks. And kids don't need the vaccine. The threat to them is so small it's not worth it. You keep saying the same thing but you are talking in absolutes and none of us have any idea if these drugs are safe. Go look at the VAER's reports. It's not all roses.

 

The VAER's report is unscientific, self-reported, and often contains either false reports, or correlation without causation. There was a time when the VAER's report was the leading "proof" between vaccines and autism. I take anything from the VAER's report with a major grain of salt. As for reality, there have been millions who have received either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, and there has been no uptick in any deaths out of the ordinary, nor any widespread report of significant, adverse effects. The worst side effect for any vaccine has been J&J, and again, the CDC ruled the blood clot issue to effect roughly the same percent of people who don't get the vaccine.

As for the trial of 2,250 kids 12-15, their information can be lumped into the larger trials. If they some the exact same effects to the vaccine as adults 16 and older, then it yes, it shows the vaccine is safe for them to use. Had just one of the kids 12-15 shown a different, adverse effect to the vaccine, that would represent just .04% of the kids in the trial. But that didn't happen. Had just one kid in the 12-15 year old trial had some sort of adverse effect, then larger trials would be needed before initial approval.

And claiming we don't know how a mRNA vaccine will effect puberty is a silly argument. We know exactly what an mRNA vaccine does in the body. It evokes the same immune response, albeit often a little stronger, than what would happen if a person came in contact with the actual virus. Because kids have the smallest reaction to COVID-19, it is likely their will suffer even less effects to the vaccine, since again, the vaccine is telling the body to react just how it would if the body came in contact with COVID-19. The difference is the mRNA vaccine is just the mRNA strand that causes the body to react, and the vaccine strand doesn't have the RNA parts that cause any of the serious effects of COVID.

And while the risk of death or complications like being a long hauler from COVID is small for kids, until we reach herd immunity, the risk still exists for the entire population. And there still is risk for kids. Reach herd immunity, and that risk is reduced to almost 0% for the entire population. So ask yourself, what's better for everyone? Keeping kids from getting vaccinated and keeping them at a small risk, while continuing the risk of the pandemic for everyone? Or getting everyone eligible vaccinated, reaching herd immunity, and causing the risk for everyone to get close to 0%?

 

Any reasonable person would never lump kids into adults. It's why there are rules for drugs by age. You keep making stuff up without knowing the facts. You are good at conjecture but not bringing facts. We DON"T know what will happen when we give kids the covid vaccine. It MIGHT be fine, it MIGHT not. You don't know, I don't know. That's why they do trials. Then more trials. Then more trials before approving a drug. You keep thinking everything is peachy and zero risk with the vaccine.

 

Nothing like PFE making a nice little sum for the vaccine.

 

This reminds me of so many on here LOL.

The Liberals Who Can’t Quit Lockdown


"But vigilance can have unintended consequences when it imposes on other people’s lives. Even as scientific knowledge of COVID-19 has increased, some progressives have continued to embrace policies and behaviors that aren’t supported by evidence, such as banning access to playgrounds, closing beaches, and refusing to reopen schools for in-person learning."

 

And worth every penny. This is a case where a corporation deserves a big profit. They made something that is hugely beneficial to society.

 

There are rules for drugs by age because not all drugs are the same. There are several classifications of drugs. But in general, all vaccines are safe for kids, and in fact, most are given when we are kids. Why? Because before the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, all vaccines were attenuated viruses and we know exactly how a person's immune system works. With all those with a normal immune system, it works exactly the same from about 6 months, when a child starts to develop his or her own immune system, till death. There are certain immuno-diseases, such as Aids, that can effect an immune system, but for our purposes, let's consider all normal, healthy people.

The mRNA vaccine is a little different in that it doesn't take a living virus and attempt to attenuate it, which is akin to taking the sting out out of a bee, but keeping it alive. With the mRNA vaccine, researchers figure out the RNA sequence that triggers the immune response, replicate it, and put it in the vaccine, using no other trace of viral DNA/RNA. It's a truly, targeted immune response that usually produces a stronger immune response, which in the case of COVID, is exactly what happens. It's why vaccine immunity is stronger, and likely lasts longer than natural immunity.

There is nothing in science that states a safe mRNA virus will effect children any different. Since COVID does not effect kids as strongly, and yes, we should protect our kids, it makes logical sense to test the vaccine and administer it, when deemed safe, to more vulnerable parts of the population. It also makes sense that now that we have enough vaccine, to start trials in kids. And to nobody's surprise in science, the vaccine works exactly the same in 12-15 year olds as it does in older people.

Yes, the vaccine sped through the approval process. But remember, this is a virus that killed more Americans in 18 months than in any war that lasted years, save the Civil War. Over 500,000 here, and over 3.2 million world wide. It's also a vaccine that was built on the 30 years of mRNA vaccine research, and one that once the DNA of the virus was mapped, created in a matter of days.

If we are going to put this pandemic behind us. There is only one answer. Herd immunity. Anything else keeps everyone at a higher risk, including kids. Reach herd immunity and we limit the number of vectors the virus has to close to zero, make the RO level close to zero, and everyone is safe. If we don't reach herd immunity, then even those who are vaccinated are at risk, as there are breakthrough cases. It's really that simple.

 

People are not rapidly adaptable, and worse, they have politicized pandemic views based upon party. Many republicans refuse to take the vaccine, refused to wear masks, etc largely based upon misinformation and associating those actions as giving into liberal opponents. Now the opposite is happening, as we get better information and make progress, liberals are resistant to updating their information set as they think that is giving into their political foes.

 

That's not how vaccine trials work. You just don't do a quick 2-3 month trial on kids and say everything is kosher. Not even close to how things work. If the vaccine is so safe why hasn't the FDA given full approval yet? You keep making it out like it's super safe. The other issue is you gloss over the fact the CDC estimates that 1/3 of the country has had covid and thus natural immunity. We can look at CA for example. They have had according the the CDC 3.6million cases, but the CDC estimates only 1 in 4.3 infections are reported. So that would be 15.5 million actual cases of covid in CA, equating into about 39% of the population. CA has also has vaccinated 50%(at least 1 dose) of their population. FL That works out to about 70% of the population without having to vaccinate the children. I'm good with vaccinating all adults who want to. IF you don't want to get vaccinated, then that's on you. Life resumes as normal. No masks, no restrictions.

 

We have sped up the trials because of the deadliness of the disease. 3.2 million in a matter of 18 months, and more Americans dead than any war in this time, save the Civil War. We rightly paused the J&J vaccine because of the blood clot issue. To date, any major issues with Pfizer or Moderna? Then, we can expect, after a trial in 12-15 year olds that show no difference in effect, that larger scale will show the same. We know how vaccines work, and in general, children react exactly as adults, because our immune system doesn't change unless an outside influence, such as an immuno-disease effects it.

As for natural immunity, again, it likely lasts only 6 months to a year. So all those who had COVID last spring and summer and think they have immunity are likely wrong. We know, for a fact, that the mRNA vaccines are 90+ effective even six months out. Maybe longer. The only way to be sure we have herd immunity? Vaccinate at least 75% of the population. The higher the number vaccinated, the better.

 

You have no idea how long natural immunity lasts nor do you know how long immunity from the vaccine lasts. Literally no idea.

 

In what way(s)?

 

Wearing masks outside while in wide open spaces. In itself, that is their right and nothing wrong with it. But to the extent some get dirty looks for not wearing a mask outside (I haven't experienced this).

Best I can tell, for most adults once vaccinated, your covid risk is comparable to an average flu season.

 

My brother just had his primary care doc tell him at his age no need to get the vaccine. Doc was in the Advent Health Orlando health system.