Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

The woman did not die. So you just proved my point? Thanks for that I guess. You are missing a bit of information here: life expectancy from her original diagnosis. How long would she live without the surgery? Without the surgery, her clinical outcome would be worse, which is likely why they wanted to get in there and operate right away. But death would still be delayed by a period of time. Hence, she would be part of FUTURE excess deaths, not deaths that have happened thus far in the pandemic. You need to use your noodle a bit to think these concepts through.

I'll agree cancer surgery should not be considered "elective", that seems ludicrous. But actually, no I don't think that is happening "all over". Many places are actually full-go on elective surgeries - even for orthopedics and non-life threatening procedures. I know from family working in South Florida hospitals, and I can tell you they've been on and off a few times (they were on with the re-opening, then off during the recent surge, and actually back *on* again this week which they all see as a mistake... but it's all about $$$).

 

For the sake of argument, let's assume that covid deaths are overreported and we really do have 60,000 excess deaths that aren't covid related. Why isn't the president talking about this killer of Americans? Does he not care? Does he not know?

 

Oh, so she didn't die so everything is cool? What a ignorant thing to say. Like I said, I'm sure she's the only one this happened to...

We have no idea how many people died from not going to their doctor. You don't, I don't. We won't know suicide and drug overdose rates for a while either. But you keep thinking everyone who dies had Covid. Glad that motorcyclist got labeled with Covid when he crashed his bike. How many other deaths that didn't get corrected are falsely labeled Covid?

Man who died in motorcycle crash counted as COVID-19 death in Florida: Report

 

Well, if we are really interested, lets look at the age of the deceased and see if they had pre existing conditions like cancer, obesity, diabetes and so on. Then throw in depression, drug abuse and suicide and we can have a rational conversation. But labeling everything Covid is a flat out lie.

 

Early Alabama college student COVID test results are in

This and Notre Dame is good news so far.

 

Arizona public schools have a mandate to be closed until Aug 17. The Governor's office put out guidelines with metrics on when it would be safe to reopen schools post 8/17, but these are guidelines, not mandates. To date, not a single area in the state are in the green to reopen schools, but that hasn't stopped some districts from reopening on the 17th, including Queen Creek, which is a Phoenix suburb on the far SE part of the metro area.

Most, if not all other districts in the Phoenix area have either agreed to push the reopen date until October (end of 1st quarter), or agreed not to reopen until the district has at least reached the yellow metrics with weeks of numbers moving in the right direction. The thought is it will take at least a week for teachers and students to get ready to be back in class, so if an area is in yellow, had three weeks of positive metric direction, by the time classes resume, the area will either be in green or very close. This all make sense to me.

But Queen Creek is one of the reddest of the red areas in Arizona, and the board voted 4-1 to reopen on the 17th. And now, teachers, some of whom have been teaching for decades, are resigning. Hard to find out how many teachers in the district, but there are 9,000 students, so figure around 350-400 teachers? The link is about just two, but the video states the head of the QC Teacher Union expects to see between 40-50 resignations, and other teachers will likely call in sick on the 17th.

What kind of educational experience is this going to be for the kids? Will people off the street really be better teachers than those with decades of experience? And what happens if and when there are positive cases in the school, just like what happened in Georgia?

 

NYT: There's 40,000 additional unexplained respiratory failure or pneumonia deaths vs. a normal year. Hmm... large numbers of those were probably COVID related.

This is a rational thought, and a logical assumption based on the fact that we are in a pandemic. Most "excess deaths" from similar symptoms can probably be explained by the pandemic. Totally logical.

You: but what about that ONE guy who died on a motorcycle and they called it COVID, they must be misclassifying everything!

Not a rational thought, and devoid of logic. It is actually a classic logical fallacy, called a faulty generalization.

Look it up. I hope this helps.

 

I am guessing you are wasting your time using logic.

 

I love how you quote the NYT but scoff at any Fox News reporting and they both sit about the same place on their respective sides of the spectrum:

 

What is keeping people from doing this?

 

Funny, I quoted a BBC article this morning and was told I should stop believing the liberal media.

 

Ad hominem is one of the very few arrows in some people's quiver. They act as if it's impossible for a reasonable person to ingest information and ascertain its veracity on a case-by-case basis. Their perspective demonstrates an absence of a key process required for critical thought.

If foxnews and cnn.com both published the same article, I fear these folks' head would explode.

 

Agree. My brother in law is in Detroit and has been recently (June) diagnosed with an aggressive form of prostrate cancer based on tests from his annual exam. Getting steady treatments and exams

 

They, their, these folks,

You mean the CNN believers? Or the Fox New believers? Applies to both equally I'm afraid - at least in this bubble of THFG.

 

In general, I mean people who attempt to discredit that which they disagree based solely on the source. It's a common form of ad hominem on THFG regardless of political leaning.

This is related to hostile media perception/effect. From wikipedia:

"The hostile media effect, originally deemed the hostile media phenomenon and sometimes called hostile media perception, is a perceptual theory of mass communication that refers to the tendency for individuals with a strong preexisting attitude on an issue to perceive media coverage as biased against their side and in favor of their antagonists' point of view.[1] Partisans from opposite sides of an issue will tend to find the same coverage to be biased against them."

 

In general terms, the only time I ever see anyone discredit based solely on source here is when some right winger posts something from "Americanconservativetreehouse" or "Zerohedge" or "Breitbart". It is not merely "hostile media effect" when the sources being cited actually are batshit crazy.

Fox tends to definitely be more dubious, especially in what they focus on, but they don't get dismissed out of hand as they do have some journalists working for them (though its' well known their journalists keep getting marginalized, so your chart may not be reflective of current reality). People should generally make a habit of looking at a couple of different stories. Or at least make a habit of checking something under the C category on your chart.

 

Thanks for the explanation, now when someone says call Fox News Faux News or CNN - Clinton News Network, we can just say

ad hominem.

 

Did they start having symptoms and went to get tested? How are they feeling now?
Hope they recover fully.

 

California expanded their testing and now have 12,000 more pediatric cases of COVID-19. Kids are not immune. The majority won't get too sick, but some kids will. It's also highly likely these kids will spread the disease.