UPDATE: Ahmaud Arbery's 3 murderers all found guilty. Sentenced to LIFE in prison.

Good Lord I wish people would just call the cops and let them handle the investigation of a possible criminal. What the hell was so important that it had to be done right then, and while armed too?

The retired police officer is an idiot. Of all people, he should know shit can happen, especially when guns are involved.

I’m a retired LEO. No damn way in hell am I going to pursue anyone armed, unless I know 100%, it’s a frickin serial murderer or someone of the equivalent.

Now, a man is dead and two guys are under arrest for murder or at least manslaughter.

Dumb, dumb, dumb,,,,,,,

 

So there was a non-emergency report of trespass, a misdemeanor. English, the home owner of the house under construction, never reported anything stolen and until after the incident, had no contact with the McMichaels. And it seems like the camera was installed for security and insurance purposes, as construction zones can be unsafe, and the homeowner could be liable for anything that did happen on his property.

It does beg the question, how could the McMichaels know Arbery had committed a felony, which would have least made an attempt at citizen's arrest legal? I see no evidence that the McMichaels could have known Arbery was guilty of any felony. The only felony we're sure of is the McMichael's gun being stolen, but there's nothing connecting Arbery to that robbery. Arbery entering English's home under construction is a misdemeanor, but nothing at the property was ever reported stolen. There's a mystery string of break-ins reported, as claimed by the McMichaels, but as of yet, no hard evidence anything ever happened during the time frame in question that would fit this description.

Everything I've seen point to the McMichaels seeing a black man enter the English home, and because Arbery was black, he must be guilty of much more, including possibly stealing the McMichael gun. So with no other evidence other than Arbery was black, was running in the neighborhood, and visited an active construction site, the McMichaels hunted Arbery down and killed him. It's a modern day lynching.

 

See the article a few post back were McMichael failed to maintain his investigator certification twice and was suspended twice, He worked for years without it.

 

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

So according to the police report, the McMichaels followed Arbery down Burford Rd. passed him and told him to stop, turned him around and he went back to the intersection of Holmes and Satilla Where they passed him a second time before setting up a roadblock with Roddy filming from behind.

The video does not support that. From the video the road curves and the only curved toad on the map is Satilla.

 

He should have been fired instead.

 

If the owner of the house didn’t know the defendants, how could they possibly have concluded that the victim was even trespassing, let alone burgling anything?

For all they knew the victim had permission to be there.

Yeesh.

 

The older McMichael had participated in a previous prosecution of Arbery.

Ahmaud Arbery: Suspect in killing was involved in prior investigation of 25-year-old - CNN

They knew who he was and probably thought he stole their gun. I don't think he was targeted solely due to race.

They were probably watching him and had seen him entering the construction site.

None of this however justifies the armed confrontation that caused his death.

 

I think it's important to be able to "flip the script" and look at it as many ways as possible. No angle, no agenda, but look at situations like this from all angles and take in as much data as possible. I understand that some people will interpret a question or an idea on this topic and presume something nasty about another poster...it comes with the territory of asking a lot of questions or introducing hypotheticals, but I'd rather have someone lose patience with me for asking too many questions than to place any value on my opinion where I haven't asked enough questions. And with any of the questions asked, it's (likewise) perfectly acceptable to ask "why does that matter?" It's all part of the same effort to gather information and determine what is useful and what isn't.

I have more questions, but I have no interest in getting folks worked up.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

Not to worry. I'm of the same opinion as those who think these two guys will be acquitted by a jury in that venue. Self-defense. This man had the unmitigated gall to attack them like some kind of cornered animal. Oh, and he was black too.

 

It's possible the owner is distancing himself now because of how radioactive the McMichaels are. But if true, it sounds like the McMichaels were a bigger headache for him than any person entering the construction site without permission.

 

One can do that without going overboard. I can look at the case and know how the McMichaels will defend their actions. But I don't need to play devil's advocate to humanize people who did a horrible thing.

 

Did I go overboard or were you referring to someone else?

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

Not that I recall.

 

Way overboard.......stick to the narrative or.....

 

Not quite. Zimmerman was in his truck following Trayvon Martin, he exited the truck and confronted Martin. Although only two people know the whole truth and one is dead, I suspect that George Zimmerman threatened Martin and the dumb ass kid charged Zimmerman thinking that he could disarm him. Zimmerman had actually reported Martin's presence to the police and was instructed by the police dispatcher to remain in his truck until the police arrived.

 

That's an admirable position, WES. With that in mind, one of my Qs would be "do you believe the three men were justified in bringing guns on this particular chase?"

 

Has this been posted?

This doesn't excuse the two hunting him down, but also doesn't seem to be just jogging either. Thoughts?

 

Personally, I'm not a gun person, and I have a hard time imagining their observations (alleged or not) as rising to the level of wanting to insert myself to a situation where I'm adding to the potential for lethal force. With that said, I believe it is possible with somebody to introduce potential facts that might make me view the situation differently (that's part of what court is for, right?), but on the surface, I don't see the action of bringing guns as morally justified here. I understand the argument that they don't think they would have been able to detain Arbery without the threat of lethal force, but again, that's a situation that I wouldn't be willing to put myself in over the potential that something might have been taken (past, present, or future) from that house unlawfully. I would have pursued other options, spread awareness, and get the opinions of (other) LEOs. I fully acknowledge the morality of the situation as having more flexibility than the legality of the situation; it's my opinion based on what I've seen and a fairly liberal extension of what could theoretically be introduced.

That said, I'm open to the idea that bringing guns on this matter may have been legally justified. I'm not an attorney, and I've been wrong more than once about an opinion on the law, but I thought the commentator in that one video brought up some interesting arguments for being legally justified to carry, legally justified to not only have a firearm while attempting to execute a citizen's arrest, but also legally justified to exit the vehicle and open carry the firearm. I emphasize the term "legally justified" because I don't recall anybody here or otherwise suggesting that it was a good idea. I won't go past that unless asked, but my short form answer to legally justified is possibly.

For the McMichaels, you have:

- should I get involved?
- how should I get involved?
- do I bring firearms?
- do I attempt to detain? (recognizing full well, as mentioned in that video, that the arrest may have been unlawful)
- do I have a plan for the arrest?

If I were to bring that stuff to my wife/neighbors, etc. they'd think I'm crazy.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

Did the two have him under 24-hour surveillance? Did he regularly jog on that street at a particular time? How did this "watching him" work?

 

We don't know. I don't think it's even reasonable to assume Arbery was jogging that particular day.

All we know is that the McMichaels claim to have identified him as a suspect in prior burglaries. It wasn't a random encounter.

We also know that Arbery was a repeat visitor to that particular unfinished house going back several months.

According to the home owner, the older McMichael had previously requested the surveillance footage from the property, which he refused to provide. It has also been reportd, see my link, that the elder McMichael had worked on prior prosecution of Arbery.

I think we can reasonably infer the McMichaels knew who Arbery was for some period of time before they killed him.

Everything else is speculation which I was clear about.