UPDATE: Ahmaud Arbery's 3 murderers all found guilty. Sentenced to LIFE in prison.

Perhaps... if Zimmerman's story is true. But we'll never know how the altercation really started as only one side of the story will ever be told.

Don't want to derail this into a discussion on that case, though. This case is more than enough for this thread.

 

I'm not planning to read all 33 pages of this thread, but I'm curious as to what point shots were fired. Has that been established?

 

Thanks for this. He pointed out things I missed.

 

Look at the video on the very first post of the thread. About half-way through you'll see the shooting.

 

I think both called the police first. I'm not 100% sure but I think both did. Which is why I don't believe this was a targeted murder like some are saying. But still pretty bad and caused a person to be killed.

 

Oh, I don't have any difficulty seeing the shooting, I just can't tell when and who fired the shots.

 

The son fired the shots. He was the one with the shotgun.

 

Shots 1 and 3 were fired by Travis McMichael, his finger was on the trigger. You can argue that because of the tussling for the shotgun it went off but there is no doubt whose finger was on the trigger.
the 2nd shot was off camera, all you see is a puff of smoke.

The autopsy said Arbery was shot 3 times. Once grazing the wrist(most likely the first shot) and twice in the chest.

All three shots had Arbery on the wrong end of the shotgun.

 

You could hear a shot almost immediately as soon as Arbery reached the front of the truck. Then two more as they were struggling.

 

So according to this video (posted on page 32) he was NOT jogging after all.
The video makes it sound like he was running away from a possible crime scene.

Having said that- unless he stole something from the house (very unlikely) I have a hard time getting too worked up about him going into a house under construction.
I used to live in a newer neighborhood with houses in various stages of construction.
A neighbor told me he and another friend would go in each house as they were being built.
Nothing criminal- just to look around and get ideas.

And no matter what- in my eyes nothing excuses the vigilante hunting of Arbery. It cries out for justice.

 

Thanks for the info. Was the Father also carrying a shotgun? It didn't look like it, but I could have been wrong.

 

Thanks for posting this. Sometimes I think folks are so quick to label someone a racist (or make innuendoes towards the idea) if another posts something that they might not agree with or perhaps doesn't express enough outrage at the loss of life or what have you. I think it unnecessarily stifles discussions on the topic.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

The father was carrying a .357 but never got off a shot.
The father was on the phone with the police. The 2nd of 2 calls, it is not known who placed the 1st. If you watch the video you see the father in the back of the truck drop something as he pulls his gun out.
According to reports the 911 call has the father yelling out his son's name and saying stop. Then there are several minutes were the 911 operator attempts to get a response before the phone hangs up.

They appear to match up video to call.

 

I think everyone should watch this. Gives a law enforcement slant on the case.

 

The issue I have with this video is the presumption of guilt. The officer assumes Arbery would go into the construction house for only one purpose, and that's to steal stuff, and never even goes into the possibility that there may be other reasons for Arbery to enter the house. Why can't he just be looking for remodeling ideas himself? Or interested in the work because he's considering entering a business that deals with construction, like being an electrician?

A police officer in uniform, or one who identifies him or herself as police can operate under an assumption of guilt because the police would have authority to stop Arbery for the misdemeanor trespass crime and investigate of any other crime was committed. Evading police is also a crime, and if an officer tried to stop Arbery leaving the home and Arbery ran, different story.

But that's not what happened. All we see is another resident leaving his home to presumably confront Arbery. And that video has no audio.

So Arbery runs from the citizen, who presumes Arbery committed a felony, even though the only crime the citizen witnessed was possible misdemeanor trespass. What right does the citizen have to presume Arbery was guilty of a felony?

The officer in the video says Arbery was linked to at least four other crimes in the area, but not only offers zero hard evidence, the officer has to ask if anyone has the evidence so the office can examine it. Police documents are generally public record, and this being a national case making national headline, covered by all major news outlets, if these documents existed, there would be evidence of them uncovered already.

The case hinges on how the McMichaels knew Arbery had committed a felony. The McMichaels never witnessed Arbery commit a felony, and the only felony crime that has been confirmed so far is McMichael's gun being stolen. And there's nothing of yet relating Arbery to this crime. The "break-ins" mentioned in the article? Shoe me evidence, like police reports, of these crimes and how they relate to Arbery. Again, I don't think they exist, especially given all the media attention this case has garnered. Documents like this don't hide for long.

Unless these police report suddenly magically appear, Arbery is listed as the top subject, and the McMichaels had knowledge of this, this looks like a case of the McMichaels assuming Arbery was guilty of taking the gun, and assuming Arbery was robbing the house under construction, likely because they had seen Arbery, a black man, running in the neighborhood. But the facts don't match the McMichaels assumption, as as a result, Arbery is dead. Last I checked, ignorance and negligence is not a good reason to avoid murder charges.

 

We no longer wait and gather facts before making decisions. It's a shame really. It has become almost taboo to take a wait and see approach no matter how egregious something may seem on its surface and that's just sad. Just because someone wants to wait and see/hear all the facts does not make one unsympathetic, racist, stupid etc



My rough take...

1. Someone could find anybody in a house furnished, vacant or under construction and think it is suspicious regardless of color. I myself have an interest in construction because it is pertinent to my job and I am not as versed in it as I believe I should be. With that said, if I am looking at a house out of curiosity I'm aware I'm trespassing and taking a risk although I feel I could acquit myself well if confronted. No idea what I would think if I was confronted with a gun let alone 2. No idea.

2. It may very well have been race driven and I'm willing to accept that even to the point that I admit, on it's surface it sure seems that way in particular because of the aggressive way in which they handled their suspicion but again...i don't know.

3. Regardless of the perpetrators legal justification under purported Georgia laws I think they were stupid, arrogant and reckless in how they handled the situation and someone died as a result. There should be punishment.

In the end I hope all the facts come out.
If the family made up the story of the deceased "jogging" I would still think manslaughter should be charged.

Again, I'm not saying that is what happened,if he was just jogging and he was killed in the same fashion I still feel murder is a bit much even if i wouldn't lose any sleep if that is what they ended up being convicted of.

The fact that the video had to be discovered in order to charge these two and actually investigate the facts is a major problem and a whole other issue that needs to be addressed.

My current opinion is open to change and fluid depending on what we learn.

 

My one disagreement with that guy is over the 911 calls.
It has been reported that Travis made the first call and the father the second.

What puzzles me is the father in the police report says he saw Arbery running down the street and went INSIDE the house to get Travis and their weapons. Yet Travis is the one calling the police and reporting he is watching Arbery come from the house and run down the street.
If he was inside like the father stated, how could he see anything?

Here are the calls.
LISTEN: 911 Dispatcher Doesn’t Understand What Arbery Is ‘Doing Wrong’

He is a google map of the street.

 

In the video taken from outside and across the street (post #392) you can see him jog up to the house, then jog away from the house. He was apparently know by family to be a regular jogger.

 

Here is a goggle map shot of 230 Satilla drive. This is the view that Greg McMichael had of the property. This is from the street, The father said he was in the yard. The house in question is at 220 Satilla more than a football field away(450 ft/150 yds) on the left.

 

He makes a lot of unreasonable assumptions. As many people have pointed out, it is not uncommon for people to walk through unfinished houses. The idea that you must be intending to commit a burglary if you enter an unfinished house is both unfounded and unreasonable. Further, the video from inside the house is irrelevant because neither men had access to it when they attempted to chase down Arbery. But there's no evidence at any point on that video (as far as anybody has seen) that he was intending to steal anything or commit a felony inside the house. Without that, they did not have cause to chase him down and use deadly force.