UPDATE: Ahmaud Arbery's 3 murderers all found guilty. Sentenced to LIFE in prison.

Anything you do to a person holding a gun on you is self-defense, by definition!

 

No, by definition, it's not. Self-defense indicates the action you're taking is a viable defense in the first place. Trying to punch a guy holding a gun on you is not self-defense. It's suicide.

 

What proof do you have that Arbery was looking for something to steal? The fact he was a black guy in a house he didn't own?

The owner of the house posted several videos showing Arbery in the house under construction and told the local news nothing was ever stolen. To assume Arbery was on drugs, looking to steal something, or crazy is racism in its ugliest form.

And if you think Arbery's reaction to fight was crazy, then you don't understand the fight, flight, or freeze reaction. As this article states, it's instinctual, and everybody's reaction to the same stimuli will differ. We will never know why Arbery chose to fight. Maybe his subconscious said he had a better chance to confront McMichael versus getting shot in the back while fleeing?

But the fact remains, the McMichaels had zero business stopping Arbery with an armed confrontation. The McMichaels were guilty of assault by attempting an illegal citizen's arrest. If the McMichaels don't engage in their criminal activity, Arbery is likely alive today.

Instead, Arbery curiosly looked in at an open construction site, like he had five before, stole nothing, like he'd done before, jogged away, and got shot because of it by two, racist rednecks who figured a black guy in a house under construction that wasn't his, and leaving by jogging must be armed, on drugs, and stealing something.

 

Your opinion is wrong.

 

I think this is new information:

English’s (homeowner's) attorney, Atlanta lawyer J. Elizabeth Graddy, said the homeowner on several occasions received alerts from a motion sensor-activated video camera inside the house in the months before the shooting. The incidents usually happened at night, she said, sometimes with as many as four people inside the house.

It sounds as though Albery wasn't the first lookie-loo. Can you imagine if he and 3 of his black friends had shown up? The McMichael's would have called out SWAT.

The homeowner never took any action, just wanted to keep an eye on things. Didn't ask any of the neighbors to keep watch.

 

Super summary, AzCat.

 

Your own hometown boy, Hunter has a great piece on this that I posted upthread. Once a felony is initiated (aggravated assault is the charge in this case) the initiators are pretty much responsible for all that follows. Ask Lisl Auman.

 

To clarify, when I say punching a guy holding a gun on you is not self-defense, I'm referring specifically to what Arbery did, which was to voluntarily charge McMichael from 20 feet away with fists flailing. If you are already in very close proximity to someone who just pulled a gun on you, there are probably some scenarios were a quick punch might bail you out, but even then, you're playing with fire.

 

And thank God that we are not all faced with similar circumstances, cause you know, in case we might not play our cards right.

 

Please fill me in, I might have missed it. What aggravated assault did the McMichaels initiate prior to the tussle which ended with a shot fired?

 

You're right. Can we go back and offer Arbery proper self-defense instruction?

 

The plot thickens...

Pardon--checked out early on, hadn't really been following the developments...

But are you saying that the McM dude's claim that he recognized Avery as the guy from all the 'beak in's' was actually true, except for the breakins part?

Oh my...here I thought that part of his claimed justification had fallen apart...

 

So, I guess you would know with powerful decisiveness what to do. Given your don't weigh in w.o. all the inf....o...wait, here's info I like & here's my opinion...& school marmin' admonishment that, prior to the piece of info you "think" helps your spew, was aimed at those that did not see this as an act of righteousness.

 

My bad...

I always take for granted that 'common sense' is the thing it purports to be--i.e.---'common'--and often forget how rare it can actually be sometimes.

PSA: when some one aims a gun at you, attacking the gun bearer is generally not the most advisable course of action, as it may increase the liklihood of getting shot.

just say'n...

 

They were technically break-ins, but zero were reported to the police. The homeowner with the house under construction saw Arbery and others in the house, but since nothing was stolen, he never called the police and no reports were filed. So how did the McMichaels recognize Arbery from break-ins that were never reported to the police?

Again, the home owner put in a camera to look in and see any activity. He didn't mind looki-loos as long as nothing was stolen. And since nothing was stolen, no crimes were ever reported.

What crimes did the McMichaels commit? Assault on Arbery by b attempting an illegal citizen's arrest and confronting him while armed. The McMichaels had no right to chase Arbery and stop him. The McMichaels had zero proof Arbery had committed a felony crime, as his looking in the construction house was only a misdemeanor at worst. And one the homeowner didn't care about, since he witnessed it happen several times, never called the police, and never reported anything stolen.

So how can the McMichaels identify Arbery as a felony suspect if they never witnessed him commit a felony? And b there's no police report listing Arbery as even a person of interest? The answer is the McMichaels can't. Therefore their actions chasing Arbery is the real felony, and since Arbery died from the McMichaels' felony actions, they should be charged with felony murder.

 

Thank God for video. In the old days these 2 locals would have gotten a total pass.

 

Is it possible McMichael could have spoken to the builder since he lives right there and the builder mentioned the break ins, seeing that McMichael is an ex-cop and all? The builder may not have reported them to police (still waiting for some more verification on that), but clearly he wasn’t happy about it. Hence, the camera.

 

Gotcha. I misread. Or over inferred. (like I said, i tuned out--was going on what you posted--or rather, what i inferred from it...).

So back to his claimed defense was vetted, and debunked...and therfore he was arrested, and will stand trial.

May justice be served.

Without PC for a felony having been comitted, he prolly needs to plea, and own he screwed the pooch...

...but the actual shooter might still have a defense-- acting on his dad's claimed info. certainly mitigates mens rae, and the decedent coming at him, I believe, will give him leverage for self defense.

All of which seem to suggest plea bargain. Package deal.

Im thinking dad takes the brunt (longish sentence) kid gets a 'deal' (short sentence, long on probation), and riots averted. Clean, yet ugly.

*Justice*.

It aint always pretty.

C'est la vie.

 

Possible, but then why didn't McMichael advise the homeowner to call the police and make a formal report? As a former police officer, McMichael would know that a police report listing prior break-ins would be important evidence. Otherwise, it's just hearsay.

Of course, had the police been called and a report made, it would have listed the crime as misdemeanor trespass and noted nothing was stolen.

 

Well, we have another great story here. This time, it's from police in Louisville:
Family of slain Louisville EMT hires lawyer from Ahmaud Arbery case in police lawsuit

Shot and killed an EMT in her home who had no criminal record. Alleged to have entered the home without knocking or identifying themselves looking for a different person who was found at his residence miles away. The boyfriend, who defended himself with a legally owned weapon (according to their counsel), is charged with attempted murder for shooting one of the officers reportedly fearing that they were burglars.