Kavanaugh Hearing

That's a trial... not an investigation...

She asked for an investigation... If you can tell me anything that isn't testimonial or a verbal account of what happened... that you believe they can find... assuming this actually happened of course... then maybe I'm with you... but good luck even finding physical evidence that he even had any sort of sexual experience with the woman...

We can't even get that far...

 

I'm not saying "you people." I'm saying, "I bet you . . . people argued this in 1991."

 

bingo. It's been mine (and yours) underlying point. I refer back to a comment I made a dozen or so pages back about fear.

 

What comes before a trial?

 

The impartial investigator should be the local police after she files a proper report. This way if it is found to be false she can be procecuted and sued for libel. That is the only fair way to handle.

 

Will address later. Gotta go back to work.

 

This is disingenuous. Again, they know the country club in which this party started before moving to a house (which was close by). They know the year (summer before her Junior year). They know the schools involved. I am not sure what happened, but it is a bit of a problem that people need to keep coming back to factually inaccurate things to avoid looking into it further.

That being said, it might still be difficult as Georgetown Prep has a reputation for essentially affluenza, to use that term of art from a while back. Hard partying, spoiled rich kids without consequences. That seems backed up by some of the stuff we know around the incident. So narrowing down to the specific party might still be a bit complicated (although it is interesting that he is categorically denying being at that party given the number of parties that were going on at the time with students from there).

 

You don't know how they could press Kavanaugh on details after speaking with her and others? They know the year. And IIRC, it was the summer. She described the lead up to the party. Wouldn't be difficult to ask him about that summer, about parties, etc. You're a lawyer, Ben. I'm sure you've handled depositions. You press people for information to establish a record.

 

But it can ruin the person being accussed life.

 

She doesn't need to file a report. The local police can investigate now. How many more times do I need to say that? She has already (through her lawyers) said she is willing to cooperate with any investigation. She can already be sued for defamation if they can disprove her accusations.

 

An investigation... which isn't relevant in this case...

Unless she wants a criminal trial for Kavanaugh... the purpose of an investigation is to gather evidence... You don't need an investigation to have verbal accounts of what happened...

Heck... a hearing can take care of that... but I guess that isn't good enough...

 

I really don't think it would be quite as difficult as you lay out.

Most likely the same circle of friends/classmates attended more than one party over the years. So putting a few of the likely attendees together could be helpful in the time and place.

Also, there was a supposed witness in the room. Think he would remember that incident? (and yes I'm aware of Judge's denials which back Kavenaugh- can he put some specifics to his denials that Ford can't?). That's why he should be interviewed by the FBI.

Ford should also be interviewed by the FBI. All parties need to go on the record.

 

Trivia question: which comes first, investigation or trial?

 

It is relevant in this case. Think of the hearing as the trial.

Repeating this statement doesn't make it any less wrong. You evaluate the credibility of verbal accounts by investigating and establishing a record. It's more than just her and Kavanaugh. Yet, they're trying to limit the testimony to those two at the hearing. That's an indefensible decision if they're trying to get to the truth.

 

I think it's largely concern about presuming guilt on the back of an accusation that can never be proven or disproven.

Assume a former congressional intern came out tomorrow and accused Diane Feinstein of grabbing his junk at a Capitol Hill reception in 1997. He was interning on the Hill in 1997, and Feinstein was serving in the Senate in 1997. He says he doesn't remember exactly what reception it was, but it was in one of the Senate Office Buildings.

Should we run Diane Feinstein out of the Senate because he said it? Because I'll be damned if I know how she can prove that it didn't happen - or even whether or not she ever attended a reception in one of the Senate Office Buildings in 1997.

 

So you're suggesting we use the testimony of witnesses that only heard about it from Kavanaugh or her... And you think that those will be reliable testimonies?

You think that anyone is going to have a better recollection of what happened than the three people who were allegedly there?

She hardly remembers any details from the event... And we're expecting someone she told to remember more?

 

If he told a therapist about his traumatic experiences (with notes supporting it) as well as his significant other and friends years ago, yep, I'd say run her out of the Senate.

 

Correct. We use their testimony to evaluate the credibility of the two parties.

Nope. However, that isn't the point. The point is to evaluate credibility. Establishing the record allows us to compare the accounts. That helps us establish credibility. Moreover, if she was telling people about this years before coming forward, it quite obviously lends a tremendous amount of credence to her accusation.

That's not really the point.

 

You're deliberately ignoring my point or missing it...

You're saying trials aren't always decided by evidence, but by testimonies...

The purpose of investigations is to gather evidence, often times for a trial.

The accuser has expressed no interest in taking Kavanaugh to trial...

So why can't we just have 5 people she wants... Heck, she can pick whoever she wants... and have them testify...

And Kavanaugh has 5 ex-girlfriends testify... or 5 friends from high school...

Then we're done with the hearing...

If you think that'll go anywhere... Lol...

None of this is... and you know it...

But you don't care... because even if you're wrong... you'll have delayed Kavanaugh enough to give Democrats the opportunity to gain ground in the Senate... which is what this is really about for you...

 

All that would end up being is Kavanaugh bringing up friends from high school, maybe ex-girlfriends... who knows... who would say great things about him...

And she would do the same thing...

You have nothing...